TEOTWAWKI Are You Better Off Shooting a Stranger then Letting them into Your Shelter?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by ED GEiN, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. ED GEiN

    ED GEiN Monkey++

    Once in a while I unfortunately realize that I've made a huge error in contemplating survival strategies in TEOTWAWKI situations. I've come to the realization that hiding resources like food and water won't make a difference to my survival if a stranger or a group of strangers come into my shelter to rob me of resources for in all likelihood there is a good chance they will kill me or at best attack me. So instead of spending my time figuring out ways to hide my resources from strangers when living in TEOTWAWKI, I should just plan to shoot and kill them on sight. Do you agree with this or not?
  2. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    The best way to survive a gun fight is to not get involved in one, much less start one. You start shooting at everyone you see you will die. A lot of the bad guys will be better shots, have better equipment and more of it than you.
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator


    Unless you have a big crew that is well trained and armed...... your idea would quickly get you planted in the ground. As @T. Riley said, best to avoid the fight if possible. Ohh, and don't let strangers come into your shelter.....period!!
  4. BlueDuck

    BlueDuck Monkey+++

    Best thing you can do is find a way to get away from the population centers. I left southern California over 50 years ago. Best thing I have ever done, for a lot of reasons.
    Brokor, Altoidfishfins and chelloveck like this.
  5. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I don't believe the you can defend a structure from the inside.
    Sgt Nambu likes this.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I agree with BlueDuck.... Much better to live out in the bush, than in a Town or city.... We left the FlatLands, for the bush of Alaska, in '91 and never looked back.... It is quiet, and beautiful, out here.... NO way In, or out, except by bush Plane, or Boat, and we can see anyone coming, from a LONG Way Off.... We know everyone within 200 Sq Miles, and that helps with planning, for whatever comes... AND we can watch all the happenings down in the FlatLands on SAT Tv, and when it becomes oppressive, we can hit the OFF Button, and take a walk outside for 10 minutes, and you know, It All Goes Away.....
  7. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    It takes a team of protectors on the inside of a fortified compound ,and out in the field perimeter, and really solid communications and surveillance .
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. ED GEiN

    ED GEiN Monkey++

    That was my whole point. How exactly are you going to prevent strangers from entering your shelter unless you kill them first?
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    When I first joined this forum, one of the questions that was asked that really floored me was something like this one.
    Strangers show up, a younger couple with two children ~8 years old and an infant of ~ 1-2 years. They look the worse for wear and are begging for food. The problem(s), of course, is as soon as you give them some 1) There is a good chance they will come back and ask again or come back and try to steal it. 2) Very possible they will tell others who will come begging and/or perhaps even group together to demand or force you to give them supplies.

    But, is a starving young couple with children a real threat?
    It's a difficult moral question, a really difficult one that either way will have serious consequences. There is a big difference between being bad/evil and being desperate but either one could kill you. Plus, it is one about physical security, survival for you and yours. Moral questions and physical security questions. The answers have been batted around and there is no perfect answer.

    1. If you kill them more will come anyway but if you just say "No, we haven't anything, move on" it is possible they might spread the word that your place is a dead end.
    2. On the other hand, if they see you are clean and well fed and they are desperate...what do they have to lose?
    3. Shooting them on sight is the worse possible solution, morally or physically. Did you get them all? Would they send the entire group into danger to your front door. If my wife is sent, a small, frail, starving women, clearly unarmed and not dangerous, to your door begging and you gun her down...frankly, your problems just sky rocketed exponentially. Think hard on that.

    There definitely is no perfect answer, no matter who tells you. The best answer is don't get yourself into the situation but that is not realistic, probably not even possible but one must try. The only real solution is the 'tribe mentality' where you have a large enough group to defend yourselves constantly and its clear show of superior strength is a deterrent to any but the larger and most violent groups. And, in a tribe, it is possible to assimilate strays to grow the tribe to improve one's strength thru size and diversity of skill sets while in smaller family size units it is very, very risky to do so, almost impossible. I think it is safe to say that in such a situation people will either need to 'Join or Die' , to coin the phase because the smaller family units will be scooped up sooner or later when the bad guys get organized and they will. Anyway...my 2 cents on a Saturday morning.
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    You had better have a Whole Pile of Ammo, Sonny.... and even if you do, with "One Shot One Kill" you will soon be Ammo Dry, and Dead.... The City is NOT the place you want to be....
  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Not just the city - major pathways out of the cities and into the countryside as well. When food runs out they will come a searching and some will be organized.

    You also need community. There is strength in numbers and you need overlapping skills. No single person is likely to survive very long unless mobile with expertise in escape and evasion.
  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Well, if you are shooting, then you must have something worth protecting.
    first wave will be the opportunists that you kill. Huzzah! You survived.
    second wave will be the desperate with a few more individuals that you barely manage to kill. Huzzah! you survived.
    Last wave will be the organized with a crap ton of offensive resources and cannon fodder. Sorry, they will be dining on your cans of beans and spam with in the hours. Sorry, but you didn't make it.

    Estimate first to last wave time period is probably less than 10 days if you are suburban. If you are in the city proper, I give you 4-5 days max before they over run your last stand.
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I think the mentality of the 'shop owners during riots' is the best approach for the cities. It's the only approach but even they were not defending against desperately hungry people just opportunist looters. Join together or die. Even if you go completely dark, and you should, there is safety in numbers. I understand that getting a bunch of individual, independent, free-thinking, hard-headed Americans to agree on anything is almost impossible even in an emergency but there it is...
  14. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I disagree. You cannot just shoot everyone. You are assuming that all people are evil. Q: in your everyday life do you see everyone you meet as an opponent or thief? I bet you run into kind souls who want nothing more then to wish you good day. I think that is one issue that we focus on when thinking survival. We focus on the evil rather then the community that could spring forth.
  15. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Our everyday life is currently not in SHTF or TEOTWAWKI.
    so no, very few people we meet are problematic.
    But post-event, the OP does not already belong to a 'Community' and is alone, then yep, most of the people are going to be problematic in the big city that has already run out of food, water and most importantly, humanity.
    Tully Mars, chelloveck and Ura-Ki like this.
  16. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    OK, this will be like spraying "Black Flag" for ants. You kill hundreds and after a week, they reappear. One major difference, these ants carry weapons, are fierce and hungry. They may seek softer targets in your AOA, leaving you alone for a while, but they will eventually seek out what you have with renewed aggression. Organizing your neighbors won't help. As with any group there will be defectors, traitors and those who will eventually look at the number of mouths to feed compared to the store of supplies, and determine that they and theirs would last much longer if the rest of the group just went away.

    You are better off on your own in a hide, out in the bush. No one will venture out there for weeks, even months or years. After the warehouses are occupied and raided and a tribal community established, they will remain in their little kingdom until the food supplies start to get short. Only then will they venture out into the wilderness looking for you and any remaining game animals. You and any other humans outside the tribe will be a food source... It will happen.

    The further out you are the better, the more dug in you are the better, the more self sufficient you are the better. Imagine becoming nomadic somewhere in the Rockies, Sierra Nevada or Cascades. Imagine what it would take to live that kind of life for years. If the tribe doesn't ever catch up to you, and the likelihood of that is slim if you are traveling light and staying high in the mountains, then the environment will be your only enemy. The challenge will be to adapt to that harsh and unforgiving life style.
    Legion489, ED GEiN and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    Even though this new member Ed GEin has come here seeking knowledge and seems to be genuine about learning, their NUMBER ONE problem is that he or she currently resides in the SECOND LARGEST CITY IN THE US(13,000,000pop.).

    Asking us here how to survive in LA after everything has gone tits up is redundant. Like a heavy smoker asking their doctor what they can do to breathe easier, the answer being the most obvious, but will not be heeded by the smoker.

    Ed,,,,,,you need to move away from LA, there is no getting around it. We can give you all the answers you ask, but the odds of your survival after TEOTWAWKI are running about 12,999,999 against you. Good luck.
  18. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I'm going to toss in yet another angle here. Space and time. How much space you have to defend, and observe from, and how much time it takes you to do that. it also works against you. Say you live in an Urban enviro, you have many houses around you, how do you cover all of them, protecting your AO from those seeking what they think you may have? You set up a watch that allows you to see as far as you can, some one comes by and sees that and takes a shot at you, your dead! A group of folks decide to check out your AO, many of them are former Mil, and they KNOW how to work as a team to "Sweep" an area, your dead! Space and Time! Space gives you time and time gives you space. Like every one here has said, get the Eff out of L.A.
    Getting away to a remote location gives you Space and Time, Space to cover and defend where YOU have the advantage of detecting a threat from multiple angles and time to react to those threats. And remember ONE little DETAIL, as soon as you shoot, you just gave up a huge hand full of intel to any one that can hear that shot. I promise you, people hear a shot, find a dead guy or a few, and they now know there is something worth protecting, worth fighting for, and sooner rather then later, they will form up and try to take you out, just to see what it might be that got the other(s) killed.
    chelloveck likes this.
  19. fmhuff

    fmhuff Monkey+++

    I am always a bit appalled when people talk about TEOTWAWKI that the ethics of MURDER almost always rears it's head. Murder is murder anytime and anywhere. The death of a criminal in self defense carries no guilt or shame however. Unless of course you're talking to a liberal and you happen to be white.
  20. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    One of the things I recommend in this kind of discussion is to have an empty house in the vicinity most likely to be examined by intruders, that is wired for sound in the house in in the ground around the house. hard wired to the security department of your facility.
    The intell can warn you in advance to some degree what is coming.
    The same with the surrounding properties ,so you are aware of being surrounded .
    There are sound amplification devices for listening at a distance , but they are not as effective as microphones in proximity.
    Face it, the more in-tell you got at a distance the better.
    chelloveck and ED GEiN like this.
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