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The American Dream You Have To Be Asleep To Believe iT!

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Gopherman, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep Site Supporter++

    I can't believe that after all these years of teaching my children that growing up and working hard, doing the right thing and owning your own Home is the American Dream!!!
    What A Crock Of Crap I've been teaching them!! I feel like an Idiot!!
    The harder you work the more they take away!
    Doing the right thing, along with a dollar, might get you a cup of Coffee! Wrong is Right and Right is Wrong , NOW!!
    Buying a House gets you to be enslaved to 30+ years of staggering debt! If you pay on it for 20 years and miss a couple payments, (its already been paid for by then in interest alone), They take it and resell it!
    Not to mention all the upkeep and electrical bills, AC repairs, plumbing repairs, car notes,etc......
    Wow 150 years ago no one even had a lot of this crap we call necessities!
    Last spring was the first Garden I ever planted! The first time I killed my own food and prepared it!
    People are in for trouble if they don't start waking up soon!!
    In the words of the Great Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that!" [soap]
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    I'm of the belief that you shouldn't follow the "American Dream" only your own dream. People should wake up to that fact
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    I think that many have that same realization... and is why a lot of people are trying to get out of debt and back to the basics. Life is no fun or rewarding, just chasing the all-mighty dollar bill on the hamster wheel.
    Mindgrinder and Dawg23 like this.
  4. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    The American dream is what Americans choose to make it. And that phrase about being asleep to believe it, I am pretty sure a liberal started that, didn't they? If some dream of owning their own home, they should save up and be realistic, and not buy the hype that you need a house out of your comfort zone. Don't buy something that will require you to be in debt to 'enjoy' it.
  5. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    @VHestin, you beat me to it. If you don't like having a mortgage, and paying back more than you borrowed, DON'T. Save your hard earned cash and buy it with cash. If will be harder to do up front, but you will save money, and will never miss that payment, and default on your word.
    With a mortgage, you are borrowing money to get it now, and agreeing to pay it back in a timely manner plus a fee for using someone else's money. That is NOT unreasonable. The amount does not matter. It is exactly what you agreed to when you signed the paperwork.
    Missing payments is your fault, not the banks' nor the mortgage company. It was you, who failed to live up to the agreement you made of your own free will. (I know first hand, I lost a minivan, because I failed to pay on time. My fault. And no one else's)
    The american dream, is what you make of it, not what it makes of you.
    Why buy a ready made house at all? After all, it is simply easier to buy one already built. You could do it yourself and save even more money, of course, you would have to do all the work yourself....and save the money up, yourself.
    So in reality, you are paying for the convenience of having someone else do the work, and the convenience of using someone else's' money, and being allowed to pay over time, instead of as a lump chunk. What is wrong with that? Nothing. It is what you signed a contract to do.
    If not, then do it all yourself, and have nothing to gripe about.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
    chelloveck likes this.
  6. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep Site Supporter++

    Yeah, unfortunately we don't find out what that is until it's a little late in life. We're programmed by movies, TV, magazine, SCHOOL< etc....
    to conform!
    My son is coming on our little journey into the unknown wIth us, That'll be really cool!
  7. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    I guess I'm lucky. I decided that over 40 years ago and have never wavered. My decision was never to define myself by how much money I made, how much I weighed, or by who approved of me or my lifestyle. Its worked out well although I have left many others perplexed
  8. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep Site Supporter++

    My Son Ryan was on the fence whether to join us or not.( I know its not the Religion site!) So he prayed to God for a sign yesterday. As he was driving home last night in the Utah Snow storm 2 meteors exploded over his head! He freaked out and driving another 1/2 mile a 3rd metoer exploded, when it hit a power line and knocked the power in the whole area out.
    He called me and said he got his answer!!![angel]

    I'm not talking about me, However having said that, Have you taken a look at the economy lately, It's kinda hard to miss! Millions of people who used to be able to afford that house they signed for, lost their jobs when the economy and housing bubble popped.
    Might want to take it just a little easy. A lot of folks I know lost everything they have, when their Corporate Bean Counters, decided to cut back a couple thousand people.
    If you went from making 100k a year down to 40k, don't you think that might upset your financial balance?
    I try to be careful how I put things because we are ultimately measured by the ruler we apply to others.
    Maybe your the 1 in a 1,000,000 that has been able to ride this thing out unscathed, but a lot of really good people have gone down!!
    I enjoy our conversations, but, I think your being a little harsh on this! But that's just me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2013
    kellory likes this.
  9. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    As a corporate bean counter myself, I can tell you that those decisions are never easy ones. As much as some might like to believe that bean counters are detached from humanity, that is simply not true. By cutting a couple thousand people, how many were saved. Who would benefit if the corporation shut it doors because it could no longer be profitable in today's business climate. And yes, it is about profits because a strong and profitable corporate environment ensures employment, goods and services available which cycles money through the community and other businesses around the country. Remember that 99.7 % of American businesses are classified as small business and have working owners who usually put in more hours than any of their employees and take home less per week than their management level employees.

    A story I really like because it reflect small business as it actually is, not how it is imagined to be:

    The Real Lone Ranger

    The New Mexico Employment division received a complaint that a rancher was not paying proper wages and sent an agent to investigate.

    "I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them" the agent demanded.

    "Well," replied the rancher, "there's my ranch hand, who I pay $600 a week plus free room and board. And the cook, who I pay $500 a week, plus free room and board.

    "then there's the half-wit who works 18 hours every day, does about 90 percent of the work. He makes $10 a week and pays his own room and board."

    "That's outrageous" the agent said. "that's who I want to interview, the half-wit."

    "You're talking to him" replied the rancher.
  10. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Oh, it has been a hard ride here, as well. I mentioned I lost a car, because I could not keep up the payments in time. I too, was angry, but because I had been lied to, not because the bank took the van with only the five last payments due. But because it was avoidable.
    When the bank offers to let a Christmas payment slide, with the understanding that it would just be rolled to the end of the loan, I understand it would extend the length of the loan by one payment, for each of the 4 years we did it. We had no idea, we were creating a bubble payment, of 4+the last payment due at the same time. That was impossible to pay, and they would not extend time. Continued payments would have been no problem, but an unclear offer in the middle of a loan, is to me a lie. Continued payments would have been no problem, as the budget was already doing it fine.
    had I known the full truth, I would never have taken the offer to let a payment slide.

    But a mortgage is a contract to do certain things, at preset times. Would you accept it, if a buddy owed you a few thousand bucks, and was to pay it back at $200. per week. but instead of paying you on time, he took a vacation, and didn't pay you? he failed you, and you are getting screwed. That was not the deal he agreed to. it doesn't really matter why he didn't pay you, it hurts YOUR bottom line because he didn't pay.

    I co-signed on a car once for a friend, and ended up having to track down and take the car from his girlfriend's house (where he was hiding it), because I was having to cover his lack of payments. I had to stop the hemorrhaging.
    Bottom line is, if you make a deal, you need to fulfill your end of it, or you are going to lose.

    Also, keep in mind. the purpose of business is profit. period. No one is in business to create jobs, or to make you happy, unless they can turn a profit while doing it. That is the life blood of business. Jobs are created, only when there is need of more labor to increase profits. when profits goes away, jobs suffer. Missing payments, and repossession of cars and homes, is not very profitable, it is more a matter of stopping the hemorrhaging, so in the long run, missing payments, hurts the economy, and results in fewer jobs. YMMV
  11. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I only have THREE Words for you..... "Read the Contract" It is ALL in there, if you really want to know... and preferably BEFORE you sign, on the Line, with the X in front. If your not willing to "Read the Contract" then you have No Business signing it.... As Judge Judy would say.... YMMV......
    kellory likes this.
  12. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Yes situations can change, which is why you should save up and buy the house you can afford without a mortage or any kind of loan. If nothing else, before you are able to buy the house, some emergency might pop up(like losing a job), and then you have all that money saved up to last TIL you find a new one. And life is harsh. I think one reason things are the way they are in the world right now is because of a trend to 'soften' us up. The housing bubble happened for a variety of reasons, but I think the main one was that people were buying houses they couldn't afford because they and the lenders got too greedy. When we have bought real estate to live in, it's always been paid in full at closing, no mortages to worry about. Of course after we hit the cow in 2006 and our vehicle was totaled, we did take out a small(less than 10k) mortage to buy a new vehicle, but because it was small, the payments are small too, and the only way we would not be able to make payments would be if something along the lines of an EMP where they couldn't record payments and the banks would be essentially closed.
  13. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

  14. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    My dream house is one of the Thomas Kinkade type stone cottages. And NO it's not the one with the storm troopers paying a visit :mad::cool:
    Yard Dart and Silversnake like this.
  15. Rabid

    Rabid Monkey

    Up until the 60's a 1200 to 1400 sq ft house was a good sized house for a family of four or five with most falling below that figure. A 28'X42' three bedroom house was quite common in the late 60's and early 70's. Todays houses are of the 1800 to 2800 sq ft open airy millstone around the neck variety and the water is rising. My dream house will sit on 3-7 acres and hopefully will look a lot like this.
    House Plan #64-210 : Houseplans.com
    Gopherman likes this.
  16. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    After my grandmother died, I moved into the house my grandfather had built for their retirement. Me was a builder and did everything himself. It was about 800 sq ft, full cellar with a wood stove for heat, a garage and a barn for the animals. It was in the middle of 100 acres. I loved it there and stayed for several years. I live in my parents old house built as a wedding present for my parents just up the road. I'm still in the middle of the land.
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I've seen this before. Not for me, I require a bathroom as well.
  18. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I hate to be the doomsayer here but I have had this discussion many times with my friends and family whenever they say they own this house or that house or so many acres here or there. I hate to break it to you but if you live in anywhere in the USA you do NOT own property. You can buy any house you want, any land you want, pay your mortgage off in record time, but it is not and never will be yours. Sorry.
    The US operates on the exact same european serfdom model. Everything belongs to the King, state, and you pay rent on it.
    You buy a house and you pay the state a yearly rent (they call it taxes) if you fail to pay your rent to the state they come and take "your" property and evict you. So do you really believe you "own" it?
    And even if you keep up with your yearly rent payments, if you have an issue with the kings taxman, even if it was not your fault, becuse the king is always right, they will come and take "your" property, they will take any money you have saved, any investments you have. So do you really "own" anything?
    If some yahoo dreams up an insane reason to sue you in court, and prevails, the state can come and sieze "your" house, "your" bank account, "your" property. They can even take your children if they come up with an excuse to. So do you "own" anything?
    All of these things, the "American Dream" that has been promoted for decades, are just chains that bind us. The more chains the king has the more control and power he has over you. We are sheep running around our little pen and thinking that we are free.
    I never really realized just how much we decieved ourselves until I got out of the pen and saw the world outside. I can buy a home in other countries, and pay for it and it is really mine, the king doesn't own it and can not take it. It belongs to me and my descendents from now on. I can have money and investments that aren't in the kings bank, and that the king cannot steal from me. I can be free and actually "own"something.
    You cannot do that in the land of the sheep and home of the enslaved. If I ever move back to the US I will never "own" a house. I will either lease or if I do buy it will be something that I could get up one day, throw a few things in a suitcase and leave, never to look back. If you can't do that in the house that you "own" then you are in the kings chains and a serf in his realm.
    STANGF150 and Gopherman like this.
  19. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    My property taxes are the kings due and I work for wages to keep the king satisfied - for the moment.
    STANGF150 and kellory like this.
  20. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I had heard once that businesses were the only ones really supposed to be paying property taxes here in the States, and there is a way to register your house/property so you don't have to pay property taxes and have to worry about the government taking it that way. I don't know if that's true, haven't looked into it, but it would be interesting if it were true.
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