The Group

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by melbo, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Actually if the references weren't clear I was thinking along the lines of a "Tri-States" "Out of the Ashes" scenario. But after reading Joel Skousens "Relocation Guide" I like his reasoning on choosing the high desert area of N. Arizona and S. Utah as the safest locale for long term survival.

    We had some great discussions here in the beginning when it was just us oiginal members. Not that we don't still, but it just doesn't have the "sitting around the campfire" feel that it did back then.

    And as far as traveling "safely". There wouldn't be any such thing in a true TEOTWAWKI world. Or living safely for that matter.
  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Back to the future and Conestogas, waggon HO!!

    For a while it will be pretty much like it was in the late 1700s west of the Mississipi during the fur trapping era, where trappers were trading with friendly indians and dodging hostile ones. Later as things settle down and communities coalesce, the country will resemble the old west, and travel will be possible, but most likely in convoys or most probably in covered waggons again I guess, if petroleum is unavailable and technology regresses back to that of the mid 1800's.
  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Find a tribe young man

    You seem to lack a little imagination, and a sense of the history of your own nation. The Native American Indians had that problem worked out well before the paleface arrived and stuffed things up....The American Indians, had been living quite sustainably for some thousands of years, with simple societal structures ....they are called ...the family, the clan, the tribe and the nation. I dare say that the Urbanus Americae mob will if it comes to a TEOTWAWKI situation, sort themselves out into similar least initially, then as the country repopulates and small groups coalesce as hamlets, villages, towns, cities...and finally metropolises....then civilisation will grow and grow, until the next societal collapse happens....both you and I will be long gone by the time that is likely to happen though.
    Yard Dart likes this.
  4. rictus

    rictus Monkey+

    long time family and tribal groups are one thing

    Miscellaneous, "tossed together' clumps of people are another. The historic groups of which you speak had long established leadership and means of discipline. shtf groups will have no such thing. Also, those groups didn't have todays autorifles, etc. Good luck, cause you are going to need ocean liners full of it. Try telling someone that they "have to" discipline their kids, share some food, pull guard duty, etc, and see what happens. :)
  5. Joseph Thomas

    Joseph Thomas Monkey+

    Each to his own Rictus. Do what you think is best for you. For my family and me we will adapt to whatever is our best chance of survival. And for us, a group is a must wether it be all family or like minded folks we are lucky enough to connect to. There truly is safety in numbers and even more so if those numbers are reading off the same game plan. Conflicts, Yes of course. You have that today even in a lot of close families. But in a SHTF situation if you understand that your very life depends on the group. We will do what it takes to resolve the conflicts and survive.
  6. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Rictus will be living alone in a hole... kind of reminds me of Smiegel.

    Anyone seen the documentary called "Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa"?

    It's a good example of people living beyond the law and yet in harmony- despite the fact that everyone is armed. There are social rules and people follow them, or are dealt with.
    Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa (2007) - IMDb
    It's a great study in the hardships of living on your own with a few lessons learned thrown in (handout food comes to mind- despite the fact that they are taking some handouts, at least they share it).

    If you have no set or "normal" morals, then social living is not for you. People are social. No one can argue that. Most Americans share similar moral values. I really don't see an issue here. Anyone who states differently is likely projecting. A little self evaluation may help?? Introverts will be introverts. Even most introverts will adapt to survive. I can't think of any "loner" type aboriginal people that don't migrate toward small groups.
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    Rictus, the first thing you need to do is start reading. I recommend Lights Out, or Lucifer's Hammer, and back issues of Survival Guide. The first thing you will learn is that individuals on their own are not going to make it. An individual will not have all the knowledge and skills to survive an extended period of time. Just gathering enough food will occupy almost every waking hour. If the individual tries preying on a group, it would be just a matter of time before someone in the group tracks the predator back to his hole in the ground and ends his miserable existence.
    My group is being formed right now. We don't specialize, but we do make use of our unique talents and skills to help each other out. We have members that can fish,hunt, tan hides, make clothing, grow and preserve food, machine whatever metal parts we need (make tools), reload ammo, make black powder firearms, generate electricity without fossil fuel, and all of us can shoot. If SHTF, I would miss the convenience and comfortable life I have now, but with my group of neighbors, we would get by just fine. Very few individuals will have the capability of making it by themselves.
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    There is some truth to this statement. I knew that modern tribes would be a challenge but this does make me think more about clearly defined order as an SOP. Mob rules or round table might not work.

    Then again, I've never succeeded in getting more than a couple of people truly interested in forming something anyway.
    chelloveck likes this.
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    They are shown the door. You're either part of the group or not. Survival situations do not allow for PC'ism or for "hurt" feelings. If you aren't happy with the rules and structure of the group your in then leave. Or be asked to leave.

    It would be much like it is here on the Monkey. We are a large group with varied interests and personalities. For the most part we get along well. We have occasional squabbles and disagrements but in general we respect each other and deliberately work for a harmony of the group. But occasionally there are those who just do not want to conform to the group standard. Who insist on causing strife and derision. They are given every chance to be a contributing part of our group, but if they continue with their provacative, disruptive behavior they are eventually shown the door.

    And believe me that is not a decision made lightly. Any of the long time members can attest to the lengths we go to to avoid that. It is not a decision made without much discussion and debate. We have lost founding members who did not agree with our tolerance policy. We have lost members because they thought someone should have been shown the door much earlier than we did.

    It would be the same in a survival group. It would have to be. If you don't fit in, if you don't want to be a part of the whole, then here's some food, some ammo, adios and good luck.

    The strength of the wolf is in the pack. The strength of the pack is in the wolf.
    chelloveck likes this.
  10. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    I think one of the biggest issues that make Rictus think his way is a limited set of social skills... i live in a small close nit community of about 400 people... who have an extensive set of skills that run the gamut from medical to fcarming to gunsmithing etc... i reccomend that where ever you are you take a part in the community... attend the functions help out where yuoui can and get to know all of the folks in the area... that way you build their trust i you as you begin to trust them... you also know who can and will carry their weight and who has to be carried...

    just my thoughts...
    chelloveck likes this.
  11. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I live in Texas. IMO (AGAIN this is opinion only) I think as a whole the state should fare pretty well. After all, we didn't *need* the US when we were founded, and even with all the changes in the world, Texas is rather self sustainable outside of some serious TSHTF scenarios. So under a gradual TEOTWAWKI or SHTF economic collapse, I kind of envision Texas drawing it's borders closed and hunkering down. Of course until I know that the state as a whole is safe, I'll stay close to home, sniff the wind and see which way the grass lies.
  12. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That Moderator Founding Member

    We New Englander's used to be pretty self sufficient as well. Unfortunately, we've been overrun by the literati who have no common sense.
    chelloveck likes this.
  13. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    I am very interested in this concept and would enjoy seeing and participating this to the next level..

    Just some of my .02 cents on it..

    1) May want to start with smaller groups, on the state or a regional level with people meeting regularly to discuss the possibilities and establishing a viable community.. Per state or region area.. From there, you could then look at the possibilities of linking up.. From east to west, the biggest obstacles will be the Mississippi river and the Rockies...

    2) create a list of who has land already availabe and where (as this will be the primary commodity), who can do what, who would be willing to do what, etc, etc..

    I'm tryin to type this up on my phone and having to listen to roughnecks complain about life and pine for new trucks.. If anybody else is interested in this train of thought where I am going, I am located in Oklahoma City..

    Just tired of rhetoric and dead threads is all..
    chelloveck likes this.
  14. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    Suerto, I think that the place to start is in your own community, with your own neighbors. Share some meals with them, sound them out about the concepts of preparing for emergencies and tough times. Share your knowledge and skills, and learn from others. Most of the folks here at the 'Monkey have the attitudes and skills to make it through tough times. What if each of us helped organize our own community to store and grow food, and to aid each other? On the personal level, a local church has community meals once a week, I help the pastor and his wife by preparing some of the food that is donated. This has built a lot of trust in me by members of the community. At the last meal, I overheard two people discussing buying wood splitters. I told them that it was a waste of their resources to buy a wood splitter when I had one that they could use whenever they need it. As a result of this conversation, there will be a crew of people at a disabled Vet's house Saturday morning to get his winter's supply of firewood split and stacked. As this new family integrates into the community, we will all grow stronger.

    A lot of the folks on this forum would fit right in with my community, and I would probably fit in with their community, but because of the geographical distances separating most of us, I don't think getting together as a group is viable.
    chelloveck likes this.
  15. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    It is difficult for me to do that when I work on a drilling rig 300 days out of the year without a schedule.

    Thank you for the recommendation greywolf, I think I was just getting frustrated and tired of listening to the roughnecks mindless banter and discussions concerning superficial materialistic objects, like new trucks and breast augmentation for thier wives/girlfriends..

    We had a 'community' organized like this where I was living in south Louisiana, I have it as my avatar and in my sig.

    although, we have already met a few people from the forum who live in the local area, and that was one of the objectives of participating more on the forum, as opposed to continue lurking..
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Fun read from 10 years ago :)
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I second that...nice to rview my thoughts back awhile.
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