TOTM February 2015- Bugging In

@Kingfish
We don't leave firearms, ammunition, and other supplies there. Remote and secluded means easily looted before SHTF. Leaving it fully stocked is a risk I do not care to take.
To be honest about it, we don't even lock the door. As I'd rather replace what little they could steal than fix the door they destroyed.
We have game cameras to record and so far all we have on film are deer and the well driller relieving himself.

Another is one or a few people bugging out on foot. Bluntly, I see that type as a potential risk as all they have is what is on their backs..

Hunting, fishing, trapping and growing food I've done all my life. A lot of what we do easily now, such as canning would be a lot more difficult over a wood fire. Sounds doable; yet it is a concern until we try it. We have 3 years invested in getting where we are and still have more to do.

Our group is us plus my daughter and her mate and 21 y/o son; a total of 5.
Last is people the same as us. There is a family up the road, year rounders and good people who try to watch for our site. A man and wife and two teenagers.
Another family within a half mile. A man and his wife also year rounders.

Everyone has power and we have power and solar. The family of 4 lacks a well and a spring provides their water. Judging by the solar panel near the spring and battery box. I believe George has a 12V DC camper pump for when the power is out. We have a spring also; however as I haven't put in a catch, it just runs down to the stream.

There is a camper and they dry camp by hauling water in and from what the neighbor said bring car batteries for power. My guess is they aren't survivalists or they'd have solar to charge their batteries. Plus, as it is a long way to haul water. The neighbors and our guess is they are campers.
A few cabins and by the vegetation appear to be unused.

The nearest ER is 26 or so miles. 911 is provided by the adjacent county as the county we are in cannot get there over the mountains..

We take our job seriously and realistically also. Same as most, we have antibiotics. Realistically, not enough for as long as I'd like to live. As it is 23 miles to the dirt road, a band of roving thugs is improbable but possible.

If and when, all we can do is our best and avoid being over confident.

 

I guess a lot depends on how much you can carry, via truck, trailer, mobile home etc. Back pack isnt enough for me.

 

Who said a back pack? How many 1000 rounds can you carry on your back? Same as a lot of others here, we are a lot more serious about matters.

Food, supplies, weapons and ammo with a truck and a 5x10 trailer I use to haul wood; plus daughter's truck. Even taking the back roads, I have more concerns with issues on the road than on hauling.

 

I wouldnt expect anyone to leave ammo and stuff at a remote locations. What I was getting at is a lot depends on how you bug out right? truck and trailer carry lots of stuff a back pack doesnt. Hell I doubt I could carry a 1000 rounds of any center fire ammo plus food and other essentials. I wasnt implying you going to use a back pack

I figured you would use some form of truck/trailer or motor home/van etc. For me to haul all of our preps I would need a box truck 26 to 30 feet long ( MY WIFE HAS A LOT OF CLOTHES AND SHOES) HA HA HA . Which again is why we already moved to a more remote location. Some people cant due to work. Everyone's plans are different. In some ways bugging out to a remote spot is much better than what we did. As long as you can get there in one piece. W e could have gone deeper into the woods but that would make TODAY tougher as long drives into town , hospitals, family etc. Its a tough call and we jumped maybe too early. Tried to anticipate shtf and were wrong. Sometimes I wish I would have bought some land on the other side of our big bridge with a cabin. Buried a huge cache of stuff and acted like we didnt have anything then just run for it when shtf. Who knows.

 

Things to consider if Bugging in:
1) Do you own the property or are you renting? Landlord may want you out (if he is still alive) for many reasons. 2) Have you done a mock drill and turn the power off for a weekend? That would give you a good idea if you are really prepared. Will also give you better insight to things you have not considered yet. 3) Is the property fenced in or open? If fenced/walled it will keep most people out for awhile. 4) If you have meat going bad or just want a warm meal, DO NOT cook it outside on the gas grill! Your neighbors will be over your 10' wall once they smell food and you may be dead before the meal is finished cooking. 4) The most important thing is what if all your plans fail for whatever reason and your time has come. Are you ready for eternity? I am and there is a peace that comes from God just knowing that. There are many choices we make every day, but eternity only has 2 choices, so choose wisely.

 

My current food storage weighs 4.7 tons, a one year supply for 19 people of mixed age and sex. That is 498 pounds per person, net weight, not gross. It is in two locations and I am in process of moving it all to the BOL. I wiill leave a three month supply at my "city house" for my immediate family of 4. It is a dilemma, but I figure I have to get to the BOL to have any chance of long term survival and hauling it all there on a moments notice is not realistic. Too many trips when a one way, one time maybe all I get. I hope to move to the BOL permently in the fall.

 

That is a dilemma. If you are bugging in at your current location and it happens to be in a neighborhood then they will see and smell things. You need to make a plan. Will your neighbors come and try to take what is yours or can you form a group with the people around you?

 

This is one area where a load of dehydrated food comes in handy. Boil water, that's it. Unless it's stagnant swamp water, it shouldn't have an odor.

 

In my AO, the food will go bad if we DON'T share with the neighbors.

 

I was hoping you weren't. We have 2 trucks, a small trailer and a RAV4.

Even though this area is rural, I'd prefer to get to the mountains. Being near cities or suburbs makes me nervous. The fishing there is good, walleye, bass, bream and we have a canoe. A good trout stream is about 6-700' downhill.
We have a garden here and are planning on putting in one there. Lot's of deer in both places so need a fence.

We have a good bit of food buckets, rice, beans, and seeds. IMO, for long term growing it is better.

My daughter lives about 15 miles away and we retired 10/15 so no commuting. As the commute was 40 miles one way, it's amazing how little gas we use now.

 

I'm at the BOL and here's where I'm staying. Unless a wildfire drives me out this is my last stand. Keeps things simple.

 

We moved here specifically to stay here and to provide a place for our city-dwelling immediate families to bug-out to if necessary. The only way I am leaving here, other than perhaps a temporary bug-out into the surrounding area, is going to be in a body bag.

 

Chimo, Im in about the same boat.

 

In addition, everyone has smelled the neighbor grilling outside and the smell travels a lot further than our immediate neighbors.
The smell of food cooking on an open fire or grill travels further than most believe.

 

I live on a Gulf of Mexico Bay. I take crab, flounder, trout, and redfish as I need them. We have a large tree rat population, swamp rabbits, deer and wild hogs all within easy walk. I have a small generator and fuel to run my well pump as needed but my large generator goes through way too much fuel to be practical. It is 45kw and would about run my entire neighborhood but once more, long-term fuel just isn't practical. It doesn't really get very cold here, a few nights a year, a fire in the fireplace helps a bit but I do not believe we have ran our heat more than once or twice in ten years. Security would be a problem here. I have plenty of stored provisions, tools, materials, firearms, ammunition, medical supplies and the means of producing long-term sustenance, but it all becomes moot if you can't keep it. I do not pretend to imagine I could hold off a band of raiders for a prolonged duration. Oh, I'd fight and I have numerous early warnings in place but there is just not much a single person can do to maintain a sustained attack.

 

True and even a small group cannot handle a sustained attack if the attackers know how. Although many people will disagree; they are only kidding themselves. As it applies to us as well, no offense intended to anyone.
As the bad guys training and experience increase, their numbers can decrease and still be effective.

 

Now this is a extremely interesting topic...which covers a wide variety of other topics.

We will stay. We have 1500 gallons of water in the cistern, lots of freeze-dried food, and lots of other food (and I am adding more). Heat and cooking from the propane tank. I don't have enough weapons but have 2 thousand rounds for the 9mm. Yes, I know I need rifles...but how to justify them? "

All-in-all the place cannot be defended, it just can't. The whole damn road can't...IMHO American houses are sieves. I have lots of beautiful glass and I can look out at the deer and turkeys but I would give anything for my Central Asia home of brick with the big damn wall around it. I suppose I could put razor-wire around it but...which of you would do that and I have 5 acres...tell me.

Minimum wage...I think this this topic is something for 'big picture' people. Look, control the masses and you have control. It's nothing more than that. These poor people made some bad decisions and, God Bless'em, the ones we hear from are trying to get out of it. All they want is a chance get ahead......but all the manufacturing jobs have gone South...and more and more of the technical jobs, like software development is going to India. It is that simple. Now, if you were working in MacDonalds at $5 an hours and you thought you get $15 would take it and actually be for it? You damn right you would!
It's a cheap...trick. Nothing more and nothing less. In time, this will cause the Cost of Living to rise and they will be in the same predicament - but you and me will be even worse off because all prices will be higher....maybe that's what they want. I dunno. I hate to think that someone would be so ice cold as to premeditate my downfall... Rick

@Tikka,
"...As the bad guys training and experience increase...
Sir, I have been here only a short time but I know you are ex-infantry. As such, you know as well as I do that the bad guys are us. This is not to say that it is bad, wrong, stupid, blah, blah, blah...it just what is. When the family cannot be fed, when cries of hunger drown out the cries of civilized behavior - well - they will come - and kill you in the process if needed. Frankly, I cannot and will not blame them...my only condolence is I hope if I was in this situation that I would try to come to some agreement first...yes, I hope I have that pleasure...but frankly given the costs and situation it is doubtful. - Rick

@Tikka, "True and even a small group cannot handle a sustained attack if the attackers know how"
"If the attackers know how"...this is the bottom line and one where the attacker can be easily be defeated or...you lose and die.

Having been here but a year, I have listen to the neighbors and digested things they say and how they say them - well - I would not give spit to how they would protect me or mine... I guess I have no alternative but to take over neighborhood security until someone else more competent than me could be found. I have hand guns, a few. I now know...I need to get a few rifles, my wife, the practical one, will agree, but via the forum I believe I have found my justification for such an expense. I am an engineer and I do nothing without forethought and planning so call me a fool or what have you...hopefully, I have not waited too long. But, can two (2) arm people have an effect in a SHTF scenario? Doubtful...better to run...
Rick

 

What is this "justify" that you mention?

 

A good rifle costs a good amount. I like the PWS which is made here in Idaho and costs ~$1700. That's a good chunk of cash, at least for me it is. I don't hunt but I would if I was hungry so it would get little use except at the range. It would probably be a 5.56 because it is a very common round and costs less - but really isn't a hunting round. I could go the larger round, 7.62, but then have to eat the higher cost of ammo. I feel a handgun, of which I have 2 ea. 9mm, is a better house gun so those are easily justified to protect the home. So, when my wife or I ask myself "what I am going to use that expensive rifle for and why I need it..." I feel I have to honestly justify the cost...does that make any sense? Probably not and I don't blame you. But, lately I have been reading about the Cascadia Fault line and when that goes, (notice I didn't 'if it goes') which could be very soon (it's years overdue, I think 50) I believe that will produce a real, honest to God, no-shit SHTF scenario here in the Northwest...and that is justification. - Rick

 

I know that many on here have opinions on them, but given your stockpile, have you thought about any of the 9mm carbines? Bereta, Keltec, and others make them, under $1000.

And you don't need a $2000 gun to get one that works.