TOTM July 2016- Survival Logistics

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Motomom34, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Standing by. Listening with interest....
    At some point there will be a need for focus and specifics. Right now I guess generalities are ok.
    Kingfish and Seepalaces like this.
  2. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    In my case, I tend to believe there is a "best" way to order things. When we discuss food storage, I always revert to my belief that it's best for most people to start with absolute basics, then progress to "fancier" storage. Start with rice and beans, then claim your century of seeds to create your mini farm. Thus, to me, a discussion of logistics is more a discussion of the order surrounding preparations. I suggested that I would love to hear more about the order people are using to store their gear. I'm not necessarily looking for pics of shelving, rather a discussion of whether you store your food in meals or meal groupings. Do you store some of it indoors and some of it outdoors for a greater chance of avoiding looters? Did someone build a fountain in their greenhouse to store water and serve a dual purpose of keeping the greenhouse hydrated? That's the kind of thing that interests me. Not what, but to speak.
    GOG, Kingfish and arleigh like this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Everything depends on circumstances, and it's wise to not assume that circumstances will rest in your favor, too. What I mean is, the larger the group, the more resources are needed to sustain it. In a perfect situation, if the group in question could provide for itself and maintain security indefinitely, there would be fewer problems. But, that's the most ideal situation, isn't it?
  4. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I understand the logistics and strategy as
    logistics is having a cashe under ground ,
    Strategy is being able to make plans knowing the reserve is in place.
    Seepalaces and Kingfish like this.
  5. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Bout the only thing useful I got out of CERT training here (that I didn't already have some training in) was an education in the latest emergency response policies and procedures...and some nice propaganda about how "sovereign citizens" are the biggest terrorist threat to our nation. YMMV.

    Concerning the OP...the leading quote is spot on. It seems the favorite subject of the prepper/patriot blogosphere is INDIVIDUAL preps and training. We have millions of people who are prepared for survival, combat, and just surviving, but no way to organize them, move them to where needed, or provide for them for the duration. Logistics is an integral part of any successful strategy or tactical plan.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  6. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    I think Brokor in his stress on circumstances hits a major point. It is not only the size of the group, but under what conditions it exists. Are there any medical facilities available? If not, then you have to prep at a entirely different level. If your group has a midwife, a nurse or doctor or emt, you will stock totally different medical supplies. If you have a medical condition, allergy, bee sting reaction, you will stock differently or die much sooner. In Arizona water will be much higher priority than in upper Michigan or rural New Hampshire. In most urban areas with public water supplies, you probably have less choices than in the desert. I think that logistics has to be almost a personal objective as we all live in different areas, with different resources, different age groups and health conditions. I think that each individual or group will have to create a situation that they may face and then prepare the logistics to meet these conditions. If you live in an urban area, gangs are a definite threat and preparing must include the ability to keep your preps and use them, while a Group in rural Michigan may handle that as a group need and not an individual thing. In short it would seem that logistics must be broken down into a series of objectives and planning then be made to meet that objective and under your particular needs and "circumstances".
    Brokor, Seepalaces, Kingfish and 2 others like this.
  7. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Logistics, resupply, standards, and organization are the main downfalls of civilian Militias. In my 6 years as a member of the West Michigan Volunteers (Michigan Militia) I was a level 1 rifleman, level 2 rifleman and then field support. Each member is responsibl;e for his own resupply and that is a real tough nut to crack as most members are not rich enough to own more than a few hundred rounds of ammunition to feed their rifle. Getting every member to agree on one caliber was a real problem . This meant you WERE your own resupply.

    As a survivalist I am my own resupply so I have to concentrate on not needing large amounts of fuel, ammo and transportation which means staying put. Logistics are much easier to control when you are not running for your life or attacking someone else. WW2 shows us how Germany lost the war in Russia due to loss of control of logistics, resupply. Russian citizens joined the fight by the millions and this turned the tide in logistics as far as man power. The Russians threw millions of untrained civilians into the fray and Germany ran out of ammo , fuel, and eventually were crushed by the sheer numbers of people who denied them their country. Locals are logistics. They are resupply, food, lodging, fuel, ammunition, and most of all bodies that can carry even a pitchfork. Logistics are everything in war.

    Every Army in History had to solve logistics problems. How did Hannibal get tens of thousands of soldiers through the mountains into Italy without supplies??? How did Lee march on Washington so many times during the Civil war? How did we keep those tanks full of gas in desert Storm?

    We are masters of logistics just being preppers or survivalists as we bury caches of food and ammo, plan escape routes, stockpile supplies and build defenses. Logistics is a plan , a plan for resupply, for sustainability. I cant think of any other examples to add. Organization is the key to having a good logistics plan.
  8. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    This is easy, the more you need the harder it is to get. If your plan requires Gasoline in a certain amount per day that becomes a problem in logistics. As gas gets scarce that plan goes south. This applies to all supplies.
    Brokor, Seepalaces and Ganado like this.
  9. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Logistics also raises the bug out or bug in arguments. Bug out? you need resupply on the road while moving. This requires a well thought out plan of cache to cache moving to a predetermined place , OR;; abilities only a few have. Logistics makes me stay home and play defense where I CONTROL my logistics.
    Seepalaces and Ganado like this.
  10. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    In a fighting force, one of the ways to reduce the logistical requirements is to use small, self-sufficient units that can not only act independently based on high-level general orders, but can come together to act within a larger unit when necessary. We need to learn less from our own military and more from Sun-Tzu, Mao, Charlie, and yes, Haji.

    I'm a big fan of Lt Col. H John Poole on the subject.
    Kingfish and GOG like this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Have to agree, to a point. It makes little difference if you have to supply 100 troopers, or 10 groups of 10, essentially the same total amount of supplies are needed. The main difference is the tactics, not the strategic needs. Or so it seems to me.
    Kingfish, Brokor and Seepalaces like this.
  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Logistics is not only supply, but resupply... I try to have reloading items, seed, treadle sewing machine, awls and leather kit, waxed thread, needles, and lots of how to books... as well as friend and neighbors so if I can't resupply, I have the means of making, bartering, or finding alternate means of ensuring that I can still function with out degrading my abilities/resources past the point of no return....
  13. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    The problem with small independent units is exactly what we ran into with Militia units. Each man responsible for his own food, water, ammo, bedding etc. Entry level was paltry here is link to the entry level and progressive levels of Michigan Militia.

    I advanced to level three team leader and carried 210 rounds of 5.56 , a handgun with 100 rounds (.22 Ruger SR-22) Gerber knife, shot 8 of ten in a 4 inch group. performed above average on all bounding drills and advanced formation abilities. I became an instructor and Field support leader. I was the boss on the firing line and trained about 70 young men to shoot. I also had all the requirements from level one and two. What I learned in 6 years told me that a militia or small fire team is good for one or two battles then they are out of ammo and running UNLESS they keep a group cache of ammunition or multiple caches. I did this as field support for the last two years I was in the group. I still keep ammo , food and bedding for two young guys who will bug out here if shtf. They are part of my defense force. I AM THEIR logistics.
    arleigh, Dont, GOG and 2 others like this.
  14. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Even down to the individual level, logistics are what differentiate between a one-shot-wonder and a sustainable force. Anyone can's how you keep yourself...or the group...or the army...supplied with the stuff you/they need to perform missions effectively for the duration that makes you or breaks you. The more self-sufficient the smaller units are, the less logistical burden there is on the next levels of command. Sherman would have never pulled off his plunder of the South without troops that could forage for food and supplies. Same goes for Uncle Ho...the logistical requirements to support the VC where less than supporting the NVA which were much less than what the US needed to support our troops and the ARVN.
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    And that remains true. Patton outran his supply train, too. So those of us sitting at home wondering what will be done should be thinking foraging among the remaining population. An ethical question comes to mind; nobody is going to order us to take what we need, so do we make that decision for ourselves and willingly allow or create collateral damage, or what is the alternative?
  16. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    that is a really great question @ghrit
    Kingfish likes this.
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    One of my jobs in the military was 92Y, company level and also battalion level supply. But, that was just one job.
    With a deployment, there are numerous caveats and details which really can plug your ability to effectively shoot, move, and communicate. This is important to understand not just for the military, but also for civilians during a disaster or hypothetical SHTF scenario. Being able to resupply for even the most basic needs (food, water, equipment) is critical for any long term existence. If the prepping community (or individual) in question already possesses sustainable water and food supplies, then the question only leaves protection of these assets along with some outstanding needs which will vary depending on each situation. Medical kit and supplies, solar equipment and replacement parts, and typical parts for engines are just some examples. Exploiting the law of averages alone, how many will be searching for ammunition?
    Excellent point to consider. I imagine some folks will be left with the choice of either choosing to scavenge and risk injury or revealing their location or simply finding a way to cope without whatever they need. It comes down to the importance of the need and the risk, and I would bet more often than not, people will choose to take the risk. Not everybody is going to remain civil, and I think it's fair to say that most will become desperate.
    GOG, Kingfish, duane and 1 other person like this.
  18. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Ethics and the lack of such, we have drug dealers, gangs, road rage, misc. crazy people, ethnic tensions, foreign nations and religious groups creating tensions in "normal times". What will happen when it is take the food, fuel, ammo, medicine, etc or watch your family die. I have thought long and hard on that subject and have come up with no good answer. It colors my logistic planning in that I see no need for endless firearms in all sort of calibers, but deeper and deeper stores of ammo and reloading supplies and more and more firewood, fertilizer, insecticide, etc for long term supplies. I don't have any hope of arming my own private army and have firearms that are well over 100 years old that function well and with care, will function 100 years from now. That said the vast majority of non preppers that I know have less than 250 rounds of 22 and less than 100 rounds of pistol or rifle ammo and seldom shoot more than 20 rounds of pistol or rifle ammo in a year. My belief is that if TSHTF, even in California there are going to be hundreds of thousands of fire arms without ammo or people able to use them. Cache, survive, join with like minded neighbors and friends, and try to prepare for a more distant future. Ammo, fertilizer, hand tools, solar, windmill or hand pumped well, fire wood, animals, oyster shells and medicines for chickens, fertile land and knowledge to grow food, these all seem more important than another AR-15. That said I do worry about the man with the AR-15 or M-4 coming in and taking my supplies for their short term use and in the process destroy both my planning and any hope of long term survival. Ferguson and its riots would indicate that some individuals take great pleasure in destroying things and could care less about the future.
    GOG, Shotgunpapa and Kingfish like this.
  19. BlueDuck

    BlueDuck Monkey+++

    Aim small, miss small.
    GOG, BTPost and Kingfish like this.
  1. Dunerunner
  2. Dunerunner
  3. DKR
  4. Dunerunner
  5. Dunerunner
  6. Dunerunner
  7. Dunerunner
  8. Motomom34
  9. Motomom34
  10. Motomom34
  11. Dunerunner
  12. Dunerunner
  13. Dunerunner
  14. Motomom34
  15. ghrit
  16. Motomom34
  17. Motomom34
  18. DarkLight
survivalmonkey SSL seal warrant canary