Toyota and Honda H2 cars now on the road...

Discussion in 'Peak Oil' started by DKR, Apr 30, 2021.


  1. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Honda Clarity - Wikipedia


    *****
    2021 Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Vehicle | Innovation is Power


    (fueling explained)
    Cali only for now. These car imported to meet Cali law on alternate fuel requirements

    IMO, another good reason to flee the State.

    H2 is an energy transfer media, not a primary fuel. Still when bumped up against an electric auto for time to a 'full tank' H2 is a lot faster.

    To me the advances in Fuel cell technology. Once they produce a working reformer, you could use LPG, methane, alcohol etc for 'fuel'
     
    Dunerunner likes this.
  2. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Problem is the only viable source of hydrogen comes from natural gas.
    Hydrogen is stupid. The only reason hydrogen even exists is to show how reasonable electric is.
     
    Dunerunner likes this.
  3. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    (Shrug) Cali mandated H2 to continue to play on their roads....
     
    Dunerunner likes this.
  4. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

  5. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Graphine will be the new future, batteries and full electric power will be THE solution, everything else is a compromise that never addresses the concern for birth to grave and recycling vs for ever pollutants! Then, there is the whole waste of generating power in the first place, Hydro, wind, solar, or some form of fuel, gotta make power somehow!
     
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  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Yeah and we all know California is stupid.
     
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  7. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    California mandates are like your dog eating something out of the garbage.
    Just because the dog can eat it and doesn't get sick still doesn't mean it's a good idea.
    Why hydrogen cars are stupid.

    Once you have to pay for hydrogen you'll never complain about $5 a gallon gasoline ever again. Right now today hydrogen is $15 per Kg when compressed. Liquid hydrogen is probably double that since it takes as much if not more energy to bring the hydrogen to +20 above absolute zero required to condense it than you get out of burning it.
    A hydrogen powered engine is going to suck down hydrogen like a gas burner 1Kg of hydrogen equals about 1 gallon of gasoline. A fuel cell hydrogen car will get about double the efficiency of burning it in an engine, assuming the fuel cell is running 10 to 20% power, at full power it's efficiency is almost as bad as an engine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
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  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Another "why hydrogen cars are stupid ".
     
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  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Why hydrogen cars are dead on arrival.
    I looked up how much range 1kg of hydrogen gets you. According to manufacturer propaganda, fuel cell cars get between 50 and 70 per kg of hydrogen. So in the real world it's probably less.
    It takes in theory 50kwh to make 1kg of hydrogen from water, that would be at about 75% efficiency, I don't believe anyone has been able to make a large scale 75% efficient electrolysis plant, last time I checked 75% efficiency could be done in a lab under perfect conditions.
    That's just to make it, not counting the energy it takes to pressurize it to several thousand psi.

    In an electric car, 50kwh gets be between 150 and 200+ miles in real world conditions.

    There's not enough electricity for everyone to switch over to electric vehicles.
    There sure as shit isn't going to be enough electricity for people to use hydrogen cars that take 3 to 4 times are much electricity.
    Right now for everyone to switch over to electric cars, pickups, suv the US would need to generate around 20% power, that seems doable. For everyone to switch over to hydrogen, made from water the United States would need to double our electricity production and probably add just as much transmission capacity. Yeah that's not going to happen, the whole thing is fupking retarded.
     
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  10. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    You can't fix Stupid, Stupid is forever! Thank you, Ron White.
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  11. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    The H2 cars being sold are fuel cell/battery electrics. NO ICE involved.
     
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  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Yeah and fuel cell cars suck, way worse than electric cars.
    My obsolete 2011 Nissan leaf with 80% battery has almost as much range as a typical fuel cell car.
     
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  13. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    1 kg gets you 50-70 miles? I think there’s about 3 kg of gas in a gallon…
     
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  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Hydrogen is more energy dense than gasoline as far as weight goes and fuel cells at low load are a lot more efficient than international combustion.
    The problem with hydrogen is 200lb of high pressure tanks only hold a few maybe 2 kg of hydrogen.
    Both Hydrogen fuel cells and lithium battery both suck at powering on road vehicles, it's just lithium batteries suck less.
     
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  15. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

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  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I can't help but point out these are electric cars, with a fuel cell. So they are hybrids.
    Also according to Toyota they get 55 miles per kg of hydrogen.
    You can get a Hyundai ionic hybrid that gets about 50mpg with regular gasoline.
    Right now to buy hydrogen it's $15 per kg.
    That's 27 cents a mile, that's as much as a gasoline powered truck. My obsolete and not that efficient electric car costs about 2 cents a mile. The Hyundai ionic hybrid is about 6 to 7 cents a mile.
    The Mirai is one of the most efficient electric vehicles made, might as well since if you are buying this car money is no object.
    Also consider right now, hydrogen is made from relatively cheap natural gas. The dumb idiot climate cult are demanding hydrogen be made from water using renewable power. Which will make it far more expensive.
    Driving a Mirai 850 miles in 1 go in like the guy who drove a 2011 leaf 250 miles with one charge back in 2011 or 2012, he was driving like 35mph the whole time. Ain't nobody got time for that.
     
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