TS has HTF...a twist on the question

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by monkeyman, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Ok, there was another thread going where post SHTF a family of refugees shows up at your gate peacfuly seeking help and refuge and what would you do. Nearly all indicated the resposnes would range from a meal and medical help if needed then send them on their way to shoot them on the spot.

    So, here's my twist on it. Instead of this being some total strangers running from the cities its a family of locals. There has been no real 'pact' or whatever that you all are in any way joined but they were reasonably prepared and had been getting by. Your group and theirs have done a bit of tradeing and maybe have given each other a hand from time to time, basicly like 'old time' neighbors. Pick the reason they are displaced, chimney fire burned the place to the ground, tornado wiped their place off the planet, etc. They have very little they were able to salvage and they arent your bestest friends for life, just decent neighbors that you get along with and know who hit harder times durring already hard times. Now just for the sake of argument we will say that they had kept their preps VERY quiet before hand and thus the reason you may not have known about them before hand.

    They show up at your gate needing a place to stay, at least long enouph to rebuild and a simple had UP to get back on their feet. How do you respond? Any difference from the other senario?
  2. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    If I know these people and trust them, then I would be helping them re-build right next to my residence, humans have always been afraid of the unknown and are at their most unpredictable when confronted by that fear.

  3. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Clears the stance a bit. Had mistaken your response to be more along the lines of some with the mentality 'if they aint my family they will be shot on sight'. Figure locals will combine to burn those folks out pretty quick after a few kids walking down the road or hunting, etc are slaughtered. Not to mention that if they do survive then any single members/kids will get more than a bit frustrated a few years in when there are no people of the opposite sex other than family around.

    I still wonder though, would you plan to have warnings posted further out or something? I at least took the other to say they were at the gate as in at the end of the drive/edge of the property. I know that response wouldnt exactly work well with my location, being on a through road between 2 small farming/ranching towns.
  4. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    I live in Bavaria Germany, so the set up is a little different than in the US and how you are set. I'm in a Village about 30 or so miles out side of Munich, which means that the human effluence from the city can and will be here in a few days, even if they walk or use bicycles. Putting up signs would just advertise, so that would be out of the question, just making the place look deserted and as unattractive as possible will have to suffice as the first line of defence.

    I'd like to get a hut on a mountain, with it's own stream a few pastures and paddocks for our horses, maybe a cow or three.....

  5. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yeah, Im about 70-80 miles from the near edge of Kansas city (population well over a million IIRC) and nearer a couple of mid sized towns. I figure my version will be a perimiter along the property lines that would be unplesant to uninvited guests and a gate at the property line with a bell to call to the house and signs to make it CLEAR that NONE are welcome to enter on their own. If they pass the gate without invitation then I would figure it was agression/threat and shoot on sight. In most situations (as in those where wasnt trying to avoid gov trying to round folks up) I would NOT be advertiseing what I had but also would be shy about makeing the place look abandoned. My main reason being that if its clearly occupied and visitors not welcome then trespassers are clearly not well intentioned. OTOH if the place looks abandoned and I was fourced to BO then I would look at it as a likely spot to camp for the night but if occupied then would move on unless I had something to offer to trade for something I needed.

    I figure there would be enouph fights with zombies and want to avoid adding fighting with decent folks who stumble into me by accident.
  6. flunky

    flunky Monkey++

    I'm kinda looking at these scenarios based off oral histories of my ancestors who cleared out Mohawk Valley of Mohawks - how did they do it? SHTF is sort of the same thing as being surrounded by cannibal injuns burning up everything, I guess.

    [Thing is, if you're bugging out and have survivalists taking potshots at you, the survivalists are the injuns. But nevermind...]

    Anyway, "yes I help them" to the question, and I'd be happier in this scenario. You need help with bigger things. My family had survived by massacring [and being massacred in turn] but also - maybe more importantly - by making alliances whenever possible. They survived and prospered, so I don't see why folks can't do that again.

    It isn't just surviving SHTF thats important, but rebuilding a semblance of a sane society and I think that begins at home. My $.02
  7. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    I hear you on that one and couldn't agree more.[beer]

    If I have to bug out, and I sincerely hope that that never happens, I'll revert to the covert military training that I have, movement by night, rest up during the day, set up operating bases during the day or rest periods (weekend's, or when someone has hurt them self and need some time to heal). Stand to's at first and last light, security patrols around the operating bases, recon patrols, scavenging patrols. Noise/fire discipline cold routine.

    In the story that I was writing, the sign at and around the local water supply (a stream), was that what first indicated that other survivors were in the area, an OP was put in, and within 48 hours a total of 15 people of different age and sex were observed, coming and going, collecting water doing their washing, selves, clothes & dishes. They were then trailed back to their base camp and a further OP was put in place there. Where it was ascertained that they had met very few security precautions, and had no dog's. They appeared to be healthy and managing, when we decided that a meet was needed for medicine's or maybe they had a doctor or nurse on hand. So the wife and the youngest son wearing street clothing were set up at the water collection point, their weapons and LBE were deposited within arms reach and the oldest son and myself were in very close support if things started to go wrong, our rucksack's had been stashed at an ERV (our last base camp), should we end up in a fire fight.

    I don't know what the SOP would be approaching someone's home retreat residence after a total melt down, what I do know is that most people will still be the gimme gimme gimme, you owe it to me man, I got my right's too you know, lot that they always were. Once the first winter has separated the wheat from the chaff, then you can feel relatively safe that the one's that are still alive wish to remain so, and also have the knowledge and intelligence to do so.

    It won't be an easy task, but shit, our ancestors managed to survive a whole ice age, and they didn't have half of the survival kit that the most of us have.

    Just a few thoughts.

  8. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Monkey++

    Yea, they have gotta be taken care of .

    After-all this may be one of us?? when TSHTF.

    Not all of us would (i know i dont at the moment) have the expertise / full supplies / training etc to go it alone, i would welcome other people, after-all it is going to be a very lonely and frightening time for all.

    The safety in numbers comes into it, they have prepped, but they also may want that little bit of assurence, that a group could offer.

    No man is an Island and we all cant go it alone, maybe just maybe the smaller groups if found by wandering gangs are going to be the most vunerable?
  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    maybe just maybe the smaller groups if found by wandering gangs are going to be the most vunerable?

    The flip side of this, and practical side toward helping out, would be that if they get hungry enouph then survival instinct WILL kick in to try to TAKE what they need by what ever means includeing force and if they were looking for a group to work with then if they cant find it they and others are likely to join together to raid. Much like stray dogs, when they get hungry they hunt and when they encounter others learn its easier to hunt with a pack. So, you can fight to take them out and hope they are stupid and ALL there in the open and unarmed and that they take 100% losses while you take 0% losses each time (not likely to happen often IMO, both sides take their hits in most fights) OR send them off with the prospect of dealing with them and friends later OR add them to the number of defenders for you and yours. The number that can be added and which ones has to be limited, particularly unless it is a temporary situation like the neighbors need a place while they rebuild, but I figure that adding enouph to be able to better defend and work the place could be good and send the rest on trying to avoid fights when possible.
  10. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I may well have that situation here in my AO - a neighbor is a Security Guard at work, and a decent sort. We get along well. So, I'd help him, knowing that he had been doing for himself and his family til tragedy struck, and is willing to work for our common good.
    Other neighbors aren't preppers - I expect they'd move towards town to be with other family - otherwise, they'll be watched carefully.
    Far too many variables and 'what-ifs' still in the equation. Depends on the individual circumstances.
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