US Army is investigating civilian murders?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by enough, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. enough

    enough Monkey++

    Sorry if its a repost, I couldn't imagine this getting past the monkeys. :)

    I found it on Drudge

    Army Investigating How and Why Troops Were Sent Into Alabama Town After Murder Spree
    Wednesday, March 18, 2009
    By Pete Winn, Senior Writer/Editor
    U.S. Army soldiers from Ft. Rucker patrol the downtown area of Samson, Alabama after a shooting spree March 10, 2009. (Photo: Reuters/Mark Wallheiser. Used by permission. )
    ( - The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.

    “On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,” Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told on Monday.

    “The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.”

    TRADOC is the headquarters command for Ft. Rucker.

    “In addition to determining the facts, this inquiry will also determine whether law, regulation and policy were followed,” Perritt added. “Until those facts are determined, it would be inappropriate to speculate or comment further.”

    Jim Stromenger, a dispatcher at the Samson Police Department, confirmed the MP’s presence in the town, telling that the troops “came in to help with traffic control and to secure the crime scene”--and the department was glad for the help.

    “We’ve been getting a lot of calls,” Stromenger said. “They weren’t here to police, let me make that clear. They were here to help with traffic and to control the crime scene--so people wouldn’t trample all over (it).”

    Stromenger said the town needed help--calls had gone out to all police departments in the area.

    “We only have a five-man police department,” he told “We had officers from all surrounding areas helping out. There were a lot of streets to be blocked off and there had to be someone physically there to block them off. That’s what these MPs were doing. I don’t think they were even armed. The troops helped keep nosy people away.”

    But Stromenger said it wasn’t the Samson Police Department that called for the troops.

    “I don’t know who called Fort Rucker. But someone did. They wouldn’t have been able to come if someone hadn’t,” he added.

    Under Whose Authority?

    The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law.

    When contacted by, the governor’s office could not confirm that the governor had requested help from the Army, and Gov. Riley's spokesman, Todd Stacy, expressed surprise when he was told that troops had been sent to the town.

    No request from President Obama, meanwhile, was issued by the White House--or the Defense Department.

    Wrongful use of federal troops inside U.S. borders is a violation of several federal laws, including one known as the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, Title 18, Section 1385 of the U.S. Code.

    “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both,” the law states.

    David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, said there are other laws barring use of federal troops outside of federal property, as well.

    “Title 18, Section 375 of the U.S. Code is a direct restriction on military personnel, and it basically precludes any member of the army in participating in a ‘search, seizure, arrest or other similar activity, unless participation is otherwise authorized by law,’ “ Rittgers told

    “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’” Rittgers added.

    In addition, there is the Insurrection Act of 1808, as amended in 2007, (Title 10, Section 331 of the U.S. Code) under which the president can authorize troops “to restore order and enforce the laws of the United States” in an insurrection.

    “Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection,” the law states.

    In 2007, Congress expanded the list to include “natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition” as situations for which the president can authorize troops, provided that “domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order.”

    Congress has been clear that the use of U.S. troops for civilian police purposes is forbidden.

    “One of the statutes explicitly says that military brigs can’t even be used to detain domestic criminals,” Rittgers said. “It really is supposed to be a black and white line.”

    The U.S. Department of Justice, meanwhile, would have prosecuting authority, if any violation is deemed to have occurred. The Justice Department did not comment for this story.

    Ft. Rucker, located in Southern Alabama, is the home of Army Aviation.

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    eccdekalb at 12:10 PM - March 18, 2009 Never let a crisis go by without taking full advantage! Does anyone really beleive that U.S. troops could be sent into the streets of a town without the authority of the highest federal ok? This was the testing of the waters ,next time a nut goes postal they will be searching homes for firearms. Some of the comments already see nothing wrong with this federal intrusion.

    sweethomealabama at 12:00 PM - March 18, 2009 To all the MPs who helped out last week, Thank you! The local resources were totally exhausted in a very short time and trained manpower was needed. Alabama State Troopers have had hiring freezes, and cut backs for years. There manpower that is available at a minutes notice has been effected. This is also true for most local (City and County) agencies. Most are cut to the point that handling day to day business is a stretch. When there is an event like this, all available hands are needed. While what was done might not have been executed properly, lets use this to learn how to request assistance next time and wright new SOGs for law enforcement. Don't use this to attempt to destroy the carrier of people who were trying to help in a time of great need. This is why volunteer services are nonexistent today, people are afraid to help others. Leave these people alone and spend your time instead trying to help out someone in need, that would be time well spent.

    Kabong30 at 11:58 AM - March 18, 2009 OK, Waco was not a military action. This is clearly a violation of the law. Was it necessary at the time? I have no doubt, but now the time has come to pay the piper. Nobody needs to be fired, imprisoned, fined or anything (fine the guy a penny). He just needs to say, "Yes, I did this and I am sorry." That's all. He used his best judgement and was attempting to save lives during this chaos. Let's just try not to let it happen again? Boy, that was easy.

    Kale112 at 11:58 AM - March 18, 2009 Now wait just a minute here. Your saying that in a town that just had a mass murder spree and that only has 5 cops, they send a call out for help and some MPS show up that aren’t armed and help DIRECT TRAFFIC and stand around to secure a crime scene, the locals are GRATEFULL for the help, and your going to scream about how troops don’t belong on our streets and people should go to jail for this? How about you just say THANKYOU. Better yet, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. If the town doesn’t have a problem with it and everyone locally is grateful for the help, who are you to complain about some grand injustice you have fabricated in your mind over all this? Its not like there were troops with M16s on the street corners. Get over yourselves. Better yet, get some COMMON SENSE.

    drawlr at 11:46 AM - March 18, 2009 If you think this is tempest in a teapot, you're kidding yourselves. There is already an combat-experienced Army brigade in reserve on American soil to assist in "emergency" situations. They are talking about posting active-duty military on the border with Mexico. In California, Marines "observed" in traffic stops. We are on the verge of a military state. We're already a paramilitary police state. Most of the cops are trained in military tactics and they don't mind pulling the trigger. Don't kid yourselves.

    p3orion at 11:30 AM - March 18, 2009 While the MPs may have provided a valuable service, and we all should appreciate their willingness to serve, there's not a single officer in the military who should not be expected to know that this was clearly and seriously illegal. The commander who authorized this, even upon the request of the local civilian authorities, should be immediately relieved of duty pending a court-martial investigation.

    PatriotPaul at 11:21 AM - March 18, 2009 10- We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

    g.e.Taylor at 11:02 AM - March 18, 2009 "Thank you" to the soldiers, and their commanders, who responded to an emergency situation in the responsible and courageous manner we have come to expect but, unfortunately, do not deserve. I hope to sit on the jury for this case so that I may vote my appreciation with a "not guilty" verdict. I hope to be a voter on the term of any public official who brings or supports the criminal charges so I can vote against continuing their tenure.

    g.e.Taylor at 10:57 AM - March 18, 2009 "Thank you" to the soldiers, and their commanders, who responded to an emergency situation in the responsible and courageous manner we have come to expect but, unfortunately, do not deserve. I hope to sit on the jury for this case so that I may vote my appreciation with a "not guilty" verdict. I hope to be a voter on the term of any public official who brings or supports the criminal charges so I can vote against continuing their tenure.

    cpt lou at 10:52 AM - March 18, 2009 Barnie Fife -- I am also a former Army Captain and I take issue with your analysis. The law may be "outmoded and antiquated" but it is not the Military's role to break the law. We swore to defend the Constitution, not undermine it.
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Military Police are not even considered Army (by Army soldiers) -they are COPS in military uniforms. And, if they only have a few people at the police department, then it makes perfect sense to have some MP's show up, even if only on a voluntary basis.

    YES -the government is corrupt, YES -the merging of law enforcement and military used in violation of the PC Act is in fact disturbing...but does this surprise you? I don't think that this particular instance is a valid example, but I have no doubt that more are coming soon enough.
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Unacceptable under any circumstance! We the people shall not tolerate this. If they wish to volunteer their services to the community, then off with the uniforms, away with the military vehicles and arms, swear an oath to the local Sheriff's department as a special deputy, don a civilian police uniform and get to work. Otherwise, keep practicing shooting brown people in foreign lands and stop pushing the line between protection and control!
  4. enough

    enough Monkey++

    I agree with Seacowboys. I'll further add that from what I can tell, the governor of AL had no idea it was happening, and the WH did not comment on it. As far as I can tell nobody else could have legally authorized this, correct?
  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Lines and visible enforceable standards( I'll use the af grooming std "afr 35-10" as an example:)I.E. the AF moustache standard is no longer than upright lines drawn from the edge of the mouth, Is it attractive? (no), but everyone can see if its in regs or not.

    1)There are active duty military on the street ordering civilians around.

    ( Are they carrying military weapons ? (shouldn't matter the threat is implied.)

    but their weapons are :
    in the hmmv down the block or secured in a local guard armory?). too much gray...

    I am not surprised with the letters offering "support" that have been floating around for a couple of years. I agree swear in, put on a deputies cap, lose the fatigues,put on some pepper spray and a flashlight.
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    County Sheriff Asked for help:
    Pete Winn
    March 19, 2009
    Geneva County (Ala.) Sheriff Greg Ward tells that he was the one who called in U.S. Army troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., on the night of March 10 – during one of the bloodiest murder sprees in Alabama history.

    • A d v e r t i s e m e n t
    • [​IMG]
    “I got a message from my 911 dispatcher that said we had a call from a lieutenant colonel at Ft. Rucker just to let us know that Ft. Rucker was there if we needed generators, lights, equipment and stuff like that. I told the dispatcher that I would get back with them,” Ward told in a telephone interview. “You’ve got to understand, there was so much going on at one time – we had so many crime scenes over a 20-some odd mile stretch. It was determined that we might be going way into the night on some of these crimes scenes – and when I say crime scenes, I mean people still laying on porches, or the side of the road or whatever, dead.”
    Former Samson, Ala., resident Michael McLendon shot and killed nine people in Samson and a 10th victim in a nearby community before killing himself on March 10.
    “I called my dispatcher if she could contact the lieutenant colonel and ask him, ‘Could we get assistance from them, with up to 25 military police to simply come in and be able to relieve our officers on barricades where traffic was being deterred, to allow our officers to get something to eat and take a break?’
  7. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    [applaud][applaud][applaud] Spot on SC. If you want to move a mountain with no one noticing you don't move it all at once. You chip away at it little by little. Untill one day it is gone and no one knows where it went. Thats what they are doing with this once great Republic. It's almost gone but yet no one notices because they have chipped away at it over the last 150 years. [freedom]

  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The simple fact of the matter is, that the military WILL be used for civil disturbances, and the National Guard trains for riot control -and it does not matter one bit what the people say...because their government is out of their control. It is like crying over spilled milk, the deed has been done, it's over -too late to complain.

    What are you going to do about it?

    Complain some more to your Representatives? Start a grassroots campaign against government tyranny? Petition Congress for a redress of grievances? Spend time on local media television, ranting about corruption and violations of "rights"?

    The deck is stacked against you. This is all I am trying to tell you.
  9. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I am totally speechless on this one...
    Not an easy task either!
    (In the 1991ish area, I was "taken" to a DPS headquarters here in Phoenix, and questioned regarding my 'ex-associate's' dealings with some "well known officers" that had recently been "busted" for selling weapons such as the: "Steyr Aug's" to civilian personnel. ( a lot of the local PD had their own FFL's at the time).
    I referred them to a local "group" which not one had ever heard of, or not even the term before. The "Posse Comitatus" was at one time, and may still well be in effect today, a white supremacist group here, known for all kinds of "deeds".
    I found it interesting, that NOT one of at least 40 officers from all over the State of Arizona, ever heard the term.)
    ( my ex-associate was sentenced to 2, 20 year terms!)
    He chose poorly!
  10. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    This is not thge first time they have done this or even worse
    And even a lot of the people who were dubbed heroes of WWII such Ike, MacArthur and Patton took part in this armed action against VETS of WWI .
    Maybe the younger ones have never heard of it but I had two Great Uncles that lived.

    Maybe it will give you pause and think of what might happen in these troubling times.

    There many links on this page !!!
  11. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

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