1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.

What would happen if.......

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Clyde, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    a suitcase nuke went off in NYC, DC, Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles simoultaneously at 2:00pm EST. It's July 31st. You are sitting in your office/home and you first learn of this terrorist act 10 minutes later....you have no other news as the centers of communication (NYC - Fox, Atlanta = CNN) are now not operational. The Telephone network is jammed and you can't call home.

    You head home and as quickly as possible to collect your thoughts....Will the US economy collapse? What could cause that? Do you initiate bugin/bugout stratagy?

    I am curious of your thoughts about the macro economic changes that might result, if any...short and longterm.

    Take some time to consider this scenario as I believe it is coming in the near future and we need to have the plan ready.....I will share my plan later.
  2. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    The Western Democracies would go on full lockdown. Marshall law would be declared and inner cities where it did not hit would start rioting.

    Paper assets would instantly turn to zero with stock indices in the world shutting down immediately.

    people woudl rush the stores and try to get anythign they can.

    many with credit cards would try to assault those with cash. traffic woudl gridlock everywhere as people try to get home or pick up kids from schools or get to the national park away from the cities.

    all the "patriot" drama you can handle.

    Rawles/survival blog, threat focused, kurt saxon writings would give you ample reading material.

    Prep for the worst hope for the best.
  3. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I could see all of that happening. Marshall law wouldn't come immediately, but within the days afterwards.

    Let me think about this.
  4. poacher

    poacher Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Well given the fact that the cities were all hit at the same time I think you would have roughly the same effect Nation wide as to what occured on 9-11. Pretty much all the sheepole would freeze and stay where they were at for about the first 30 min. The reason I say that is because thats about how long it would take for the whole thing to sink in.
    Once that was over you would see people heading for home at break neck speed, prior to home they would go ahead and try to get gas. Your credit cards would still work for the gas pumps because by and large they do a dump once a day. The pump saves all the cc numbers and at a preset time it runs all of them. Not all the pumps do this but a large amount do.
    Once the people got gas they would head on home to see what the news or tv had to say. Your local station would be broadcasting somthing about the incident. It wouldn't be until about two or three hours later that they start thinking about groceries.
    Cash would of course be king but with the markets shut down they wouldn't have had the chance to declare the FRN worthless so it would still be accepted. The run would begin about 6 pm when the local news does a big story on what is going on at the store.
    Marshal law would of course happen in the affected cities right away but as far as it occuring all over I don't think it would until a couple of days later. TPTB would strongly suggest that all travel be discuraged but I don't think they would stop it.

    I could see looting more so than rioting. I mean you have a perfect time to do so, with the police, fire and ems already overloaded and spread thin.

    Well I'll think on this some more and post later.
    Take care Be safe Poacher.
  5. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    If that situation were to happen, I would be almost utterly screw-ed. Here is what I have to rely on so far in my hole in the wall place.

    I have
    1 regular pocket knife
    1 swiss-army knife
    1 short flipout knife
    some camping needles
    a small mirror
    two below average first aid kits which both could fit in a gallon ziplock bag
    20 low dose tylenol, 4 penicillin pills, 30-40 naproxen pills
    5 lbs beans and 6 lbs. rice
    2 cans of beans
    2 bags of pasta noodles
    2 small water bottles
    school type backpack
    black old type combat boots
    army fatigues w/ real unit patches, dogtags
    tennis shoes
    $40 cash
    military watch w/ indigo light
    5 packs of koolaid w/ 1 quart koolaid mix
    enough socks
    a couple jackets, field included
    flannel longsleeve shirt
    three pairs jeans
    two belts
    bunch of strike on pack matches
    oatmeal 1/2lb
    grits 1/2lb
    crappy compass
    empty two liter bottle
    black boot polish

    That's about it. Doesn't seem to be a good kit, though I may survive for a few days. So that is pretty much what I would have if it happened right now. I could trade some of the food I have for a pistol and some ammo as I can fish and hunt for game. I would have a slight chance though I definitely need to improve my things as soon as possible, though the possible is hard at the moment. Or I could wait it out in my room until all my neighbors killed each other off and then go scavenging. Then I would head either north to game ground or the long long trip back home to the south.

    No telling what when the time came.
  6. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    TailorMadeHell, do yourself a favor, go buy some 50 pound bags of rice, pinto beans and popcorn. all can be bought at samsclub/costco. rice is like 7 - 12 dollars, beans maybe 12 and corn 15. if you can get a hold on hard winter wheat you can cook it in a thermos. buy a thermos bottle and put some grains in there, about a 1/3rd full and add boiling water, salt and some other spices to taste untill about 1/4 air is left. seal the bottle and let sit overnight. in the morning you will have food since all the energy to cook the grain is in the boiling water when it is hot.
    1/4 galon thermos feeds you for a day.

    rice and pinto beans do not add to complete protein since both white rice and pinto beans miss important aminoacids. corn helps. if you can get any, and i men any, other type of a bean in bulk pay a dollar or 5 more for the 50 pound bag. you will live longer under poor conditions.

    you need a galon a day of water to live. california firefighters tell californians to keep 2 weeks of water on hand for each person in case of an earthquake.

    i bought a 55 gallon blue water drums. keep tap water in them. add a little bleach and change once every so often. keep it sealed cause mosquitos love still water.
  7. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    TailorMadeHell... I would worry about trying to trade food for a handgun, your at a bit of a bargaining disadvantage at that point, more likely the guy with the handgun will just help himself to your food. The purchase of a handgun should be first on your list of things to do.
  8. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    I would get a 18.5 inch shotgun if without a firearm, but I would not argue you Blackjack. I'd rather go an make a tactical wheelbarrow or something and post picks of myself next to it on ar15
  9. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Good scenario. Timely I think too.
    I'll post tonight
  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Wow, the amount of problems that would cause is unbelievable. Panic would be wide-spread and looting would abound. There is a whole generation of people that have existed solely on the hand-outs our tax dollars have provided and when the check don’t reach their subsidized housing mailbox at the first of the month, they’ll riot and there won’t be enough military/police to stop them.
    Most people will be watching CNN for the sanitized version of what’s happening. Tempers will be short and road-rage incidents will abound, especially near the grocery stores and gas stations. Gun shops will sell out quickly and at premium prices. Eventually, some self-important bastard ( the one that drives down the shoulder to around an accident while you sit for an hour waiting) will fire the shot that’s heard around the world. Rambo will be rushing his family across country shooting everything in his path to get to grandma’s farm and Bubba will be dumping loads of dirt on the bridges into town. Snoop dog will be turning and burning cars while his bitch pushes carts through Walmart and the Reverend Billy Bob will be shouting prayers and passing the ammunition: Armageddon will have arrived.
    Satan and the Anti-Christ will hand out leaflets on every corner and everybody’s version of God will be sending messages. The All-seeing Eye on our dollar will be launched into our daily lives and we will invite the Government to slay our few remaining liberties in the name of security. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State> will fall into the ocean after the biggest earthquake in recorded history hits during the most publicized rescue effort in history; The Mississippi will run backwards all in the same week and a category five hurricane will ravage the <st1:place w:st="on">Gulf of Mexico</st1:place>.
    People will loose their humanity in lieu of their personal agenda and eventually will be redefined as a potential food source.
    I will stay home. I will defend my home until the Hurricane destroys it and I am killed by a flying tree sometime after the Donner Party evening meal.
  11. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

  12. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

  13. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    I suspect all of the things in this thread 'could' happen......but the one thing you can bet the whole fricking farm on is the above statement.
  14. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    TMH, I would suggest that if money is tight to a point that purchaseing a handgun or higher dollar longarm is a problem head to the local Walmart as soon as you can have a bit of cash and you can get the single shot New England Arms single shot shotgun for about $90 and around $15 at most for 100 shells for it. If you can afford around $250 you can get a Charlse Daily pump shotgun there with changeable chokes. A pump would be better but a single shot shotgun will put you light years ahead of nothing. The field loads will do well for small game and at close range will do for things like attacking dogs or even people, buckshot would do better for protection and slugs will let you reach out to a little past 100 yards.

    On the other preps most of the basics can be done on the cheap also. Most any problem you may face on preping can be overcome with a bit of creativity. If space is a problem then if you can set aside a corner (even if you put a moveable piece of panneling or dry wall up in the corner of an appartment) and set aside an area say 3 foot by 3 foot you could set back a 50-60 gallon barrel of water (enouph for one person to stretch for up to 3 months or a family of 3 up to a month and easily for a family of 3 for 2 weeks with washing and all) then add say a hald dozen empty 2 liter or gallon bottles of water in case you need to take them and go. on top of that you could buy the 50 lbs bags of oatmeal, rice, and beans and maybe 4 or 5 cases of Ramen noodles. You could easily get 50 lbs of each and 5 cases of Ramen noodles for well under $75. From there go get a couple rolls of duct tape a package of feminin napkins, a box of bandaids and a bottle of peroxide and you have wound care pretty well covered, go to the nearest shop that caters to folks with cattle or horses and you can get a bottle of antibiotics for around $20, then add some anti diarea meds and ibuprophen for swelling mild pain and fever and you have a basic but comprehensive first aid kit covered.

    With these basic supplies that you should be able to gather (includeing the shotgun) for under $300, while it would not have you set up to live like a king, with even those basics and a roof of any kind you have food water, shelter and protection covered for at least 2-3 months for a single person and could cover a family of 3 if streched a bit for at least a month and the only large purchase would be around $100 for the shotgun and ammo.

    Just a few tips from someone who has had to prep with very limited funds and at times limited space.
  15. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks for the info. It's all been good. As for the weapons, I know it is legal at the moment to own a weapon in residence, so I can get one. Just have to save up the money. I may even go so far as to get a shotgun w/ 100 rounds and a handgun w/ 3 clips.

    As far as the 50 gallon water container, I don't see that it would be allowable where I live. There is no way I could sneak it in. I could get some 2 or 3 liter soda bottles and keep water in them so I will check it out.

    I am working with a room that is about 9' by 12'. It's a small overly expensive 'apartment'. I can't attach shelves to the walls. I may be able to get some of those plastic styled ones from wally world. However I have checked into the structure of this building and it seems that if a quake, big enough to cause real damage, were to hit around here this place would go down rapidly. So, I may not have anything to worry about. Haha.

    I am going to start doing something when I get this new job. I will start prepping. Might get a storage unit on the outskirts of the city so if I bug out I can grab what I have stored and go. Might even store a vehicle there. There is basically no need for one in the city and it's jammed with enough people who don't know how to drive, though in the event that I head out it would make having one a good thing. Besides, can't see myself walking through all that desert to get home. I'd be like Moses or something. Crazy as a loon by the time I get anywhere. Haha.
  16. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    When do you get to be released?:D
  17. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Handgun and a motorcycle TMH. If you are in the city, you want great mileage and not be subject to the lanes of the freeway--think Katrina. A motor cycle would be perfect since you could ride on the shoulder, median and pass the traffic. Use the bike to get to a safer location. You know anyone in a rural area? Melbo posted an interesting bike motor link here http://survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3021&highlight=bike+motor You would just need a bike that you could find used and rig it up for extra fuel on some racks and bags on the bike. Also, do you know any other people in your are that are like minded that might want a bugin scenario until things settle?
  18. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    If its that small maybe you could put the stuff under the bed and maybe pull the dresser out a foot or so from the wall and put the stored stuff behind it. Since you cant do the single barrel then each paycheck for 2 or 3 months pick up a 5 gallon plastic water jug (like the Jerry can type), IIRC they are like $10 or so at Wallmart, 10 or so of them and you have as much water as the barrel and the bonus that they are easier to store and move if needed.

    So if you dont mind me asking, where are you at that your appartment is ony 9x12? Or is that the area you have you can use for storage? I just ask since I cant imagine anything more than a small bedroom being that small since even in our trailer the smaller of the bathrooms is over half of that size.

    Oh and what I was talking about with the panneling or drywall was to basicly use a corner of a room as storage then build 2 free standing walls to close off say a little 3'x3'storage area where you could stack the stuff on top of a barrel of water or on top of a table with the water under the table. A closet would work fine also but was assumeing you had them full and may have to replace say an end table with storage space.

    A couple of emportant things I forgot to mention for the storage would be a couple 24 packs of TP (have what you need and after a week or 2 the rest is like gold for barter) and a 5 gallon bucket with a lid and a few boxes of small trash can liners. The bucket can be used as a toilet with the liners in it and remove the bags to the best outside place available each day. The thermos for cooking beans and rice mentioned above would be an excelent idea and also a couple gallons of naptha from the hardware store to use as cooking fuel in a popcan stove (can google it if not familiar with them and tuna cans work well for the same idea) then add an empty coffee can or small pot for cooking in even if its just haveing one in the kitchen since you will need to boil water for most of the stored foods mentioned. If you are going to store canned foods then dont forget the can opener.
  19. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks for the additional information. I can see that I will make some alterations to my plans. I can see that I could find ways to use the small amount of area that I have to be more beneficial. I will look into some shelving, non-screwed of course. As far as getting the bike, that is a good idea. Maybe something in the way of a moped or something small. I'm no good with motorcycles, though if it came time I'm sure I would learn rapidly. :D As for like minded people. I only know you guys. I am not a, how do you say outgoing person. I tend to keep to myself in this town of nutcases. Too many antis around here for my taste. I will be dependent on myself and what I learn to get out of here. As far as family. My nearest family are in AL. I am the only one here and I have no ties to anything or anyone. I came out here for better opportunities, though it isn't panning out so well.

    As for my jail cell, well would it shock you to know that for my little 9x12 piece of heaven in the city of San Franpsycho I pay $470 a month? Tis true. Was lowest that I could find. Just read newspaper ads for other apartments they have for rent and the cheapest they advertise is about $1900 a month. In this thing I have room for a sink, a dresser, one of the movable closet things a small apartment fridge and a small bed. I have a crockpot and a small boiler pot. Both are electric. Hot plates or burners are not allowed here. Someone might start fires and possibly have done so in the past.

    Soon as I can, I will try to find a better locale if I have to move to the country and commute to the city. I am in no way a city boy. It is actually killing me to be here. Though I am taking it step by step and if I keel over before I get prepped then oh well. I can only do so much. I think with some extra shelves I can store more food. I could keep a few cans of water in my closet at the bottom. I could move the dresser out a bit and store behind it. Now that I am looking at this room in a new light I can see potential. One thing I could possibly get that would be good might be a rope ladder. I am on the sixth floor and there is a building out my window about a floor down that has a fire escape I could use to keep from going down to a lobby filled with crazy people. Would help avoid attention good as it leads into an alley.

    So that's my situation so far. Oh and if you want further info on my location, look at a map of the 1906 San Fran earthquake. Look for the damage zone due to the earthquake and I reside in that area. This area suffered due to the quake, though not due to the resultant fires. That was further into the city than I am.
  20. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    What type of work are you looking for? Man that sounds like it really really sucks there.
    Maybe if you post something of what you are looking for, one of our members might know of someone with a job you are looking for.
    Good Luck Man!
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary