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Excessive/without "rule of law": E/WROL

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by CATO, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    Spirko brought this up a while back while interviewing Glen Tate on a TSP podcast. Glen Tate must have taken the idea and ran with it.

    Some points to ponder:
    • take those identifying stickers off your car now! See more here.
    • both LEOs and criminals will be threats to you...lay low. See example here.

    E&WROL (“excessive and without rule of law”): not a contradiction, but what’s likely coming

    E&WROL (“excessive and without rule of law”): not a contradiction, but what’s likely coming

    by Glen Tate on January 20, 2013
    How many times do things turn out exactly like you think they will? For me, not often. Often something that I think will happen partially happens, while something else I didn’t foresee partially happens too. Reality is a blend of what I foresee and what I didn’t see coming. A blend.
    I think the collapse will be a blend of EROL (“excessive rule of law”) and WROL (“without rule of law”). I call it “E&WROL.”
    Some in the prepping community talk about getting ready for EROL. They (correctly) are worried about an oppressive government cracking down after a collapse.
    Many in the prepping community are getting ready for WROL. You know, looting and gangs running wild. This is a very likely scenario.
    How can we simultaneously have two things that contradict each other: too much rule of law and total lawlessness?
    It happens all the time, actually. A friend of mine has seen it. He is a special operations soldier. He’s seen E&WROL in Baghdad and Kabul.
    Let’s look at what E&WROL would look like in America. It starts with things like the recently passed gun laws in New York state, which make it a felony to possess most of the guns people have. Some citizens will shoot back when the police try to take their guns. As one New York mayor put it, there will be some “Waco-style standoffs.” Expect lots of bloody firefights. They will be on the news every night.
    Assume that during these firefights some innocent civilians get killed, as they will. What if some people start targeting the police as retribution? This has already happened: Oklahoma City was retribution for Waco. My spec ops friend has seen this retribution happen. Houses burned. Families of police officers killed. Horrific things.
    The police won’t take it lying down. They will react, and react hard. (You know what happens when someone kills a cop; the killer is rarely taken alive.) There will be some bad police who want to abuse people. But, in my experience, the vast majority of police aren’t like that. Instead, when confronted with retributionists trying to kill them and their families, the police will go into survival mode – like any human beings would. They will band together. They will “take care of business.” You won’t want to have a “Don’t Tread on Me” sticker on your vehicle during a traffic stop. There will be police road blocks and warrantless vehicle searches. This is EROL.
    While EROL is going on, WROL will explode. Why? Because the criminals know that the police are hunkered down behind barricades and trying to find retributionists. This leaves the streets free for criminals to steal, rape, burn, and kill. And they will. Big time.
    So I foresee simultaneous EROL and WROL. This happens all over the world. In fact, it’s going on right now, as you read this, in some part of the world.
    What can you do?
    Lay low. Be strictly defensive. Expect both criminals and the police to be potential problems for you, and avoid both. Don’t go looking for fights.
    Stay the hell away from everyone, except your family and the people you trust. For the first few days or maybe weeks of the collapse, while E&WROL is unfolding, be invisible. Don’t show off your AR-15 to the neighbor lady. Don’t give the police a reason to suspect you. Repel the criminals but don’t go hunting for them. Be strictly defensive.
    There will be a time for you to band together with like-minded people who want to fix things – but don’t assume that will happen on day one. You have to live past the first few days or weeks of the collapse before you can go on to eventually fix things. Live to fight another day.
    The best way to live through the initial period is to not assume things will be exactly like you’ve planned. If you’ve spent hours thinking about how you would go after the police, don’t do it. If you’ve spent hours thinking about how you’ll hunt down criminals, don’t do it.
    Instead, take things as they come with your primary goal being your survival. Don’t get locked into one scenario. Adapt. Survive.
    chelloveck, aferalhamster and UGRev like this.
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    2 POINTS; Alot of us who are not LEO's are fed up with the Gestapo Storm Trooper Tactics. Alpha Dog here at Monkey, understands we are human beings as well, and not garbage. It would be smart for ALL LEO's to understand this. It is not that hard to come up with a fairly reliable all inclusive list of local LEO's. This said, let's move on to point 2; If LEO's go off the reservation in a broad manner with out just cause in individual cases, they would be no better than the lowest scum they ever arrested. There would be nowhere they could hide. There are how many police for how many civilians in the area where you live? What percentage do you think are gun owners? 25 to 33% at the last estimates I heard. Seems to me they are seriously outnumbered.
    I would hate to see something like this happen. No one wins anything. jmho
    kellory and ditch witch like this.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    LEOs who go "Off the Reservation" are already the lowest form of Scum, on the planet.... Just ask ANY Honorable LEO, what he thinks of a Off the Reservation Cop.... The Blue Brotherhood normally does NOT include such behavior..... .....
    kellory and tacmotusn like this.
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    This article does raise some interesting points to reference, namely scenarios during societal collapse and the patterns of crime to follow. The part we shouldn't miss is the geographic indicator for each case --Chicago dwellers would not fair the same as rural country folk in Kansas. Having a tight-knit community or just an overall good group of neighbors could mean the difference between 'ZOMBIE apocalypse' and 'another hyped up event'.

    But, OPSEC is always important.
    VisuTrac and chelloveck like this.
  5. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey++

    Its funny I work as a LEO in a town of 16000. The sheep in town are different from where I live thirty miles out in the country. I know most of the 800 people that live in my valley, In town they dont know there next door neighbor. Here they know what I do and expect me to lead and help them. In town they expect me to solve their problem.( yes I get calls at home with questions from people who dont live in my Jurisdiction)

    If my kind went Rouge it would be better to do it in town. Out in the country they would fight back, in town they would run. In town we would be competing with gangs, in the country we would be fighting home owners with something to fight for.

    The other thing to remember is if the SHTF the cops already know how to work as a unit and have a rank structure. There is briefing room banter about this and most seem to be of the opinion that when there is no law it is time to get the family and find a safe place. Many have told me they intend to come visit me. I will put them to work using the skills they have to defend what we have. I got enough people that know how to grow food already.
    kellory, oldawg, chelloveck and 3 others like this.
  6. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

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