How Much Is Too Much? (First Aid) EDC/BOB/INCH

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by TheJackBull, Aug 1, 2021.


  1. TheJackBull

    TheJackBull Monkey+++

    I find myself in some sort of a "Groundhog Day" situation. Each time I pack a Bag (bob, edc inch), load up a tote (road trip, camping, planned bug out) or go out looking for supplies, I find myself centered on First Aid.
    It's to the point where I struggle to get other, even necessary items, to fit in my bag.
    I dont know what it is or why I have this fascination with the stuff, but I seem to always have way more First Aid than any other survival, bug out, preparedness gear. Sure I have two methods for starting a fire in my pack, but I have 95 different kinds of Band-Aids packed. I mean really, what am I going to do with band aids anyway?

    I brought this issue up to some close friends and family some time ago, and it seemed that we all had (to varying degrees) a similar problem. It wasn't always first aid. Some packed so much water they had no room for shelter gear. Some packed so much for shelter they had little in way of food..

    After giving it some thought we decided that it was our comfort level in certain areas that lead us to pack less of those items and our limited knowledge, in my case, with real "medical trauma" that lead to an overcompensation on packing first aid.

    I am fairly practiced in shelter building, finding water and purification, hunting and gathering, fire starting, and so on. BUT I have no real Medical experience. Sure I know what we generally term FirstAid, CPR, and the like, but I have never been a First Responder, EMT/Fire/Police. I have never worked in a medical facility hospital/clinic or otherwise. I have never been in a situation were I needed to apply a tourniquet, splint, or chest seal. So, I over prep on those items to make up for it?!?! Like having the gear will somehow make me proficient.

    Long story short. I have decided that I need to find some alternate way to get practice with Trauma situations and the associated gear, other than reading about it and watching YouTube (although I quite like YouTube). I need to get my hands dirty like I have done in all the other areas of my preps and survival.
    My bags are heavy and packed to the gills with first aid and I feel it is just too much. I find these Items are either light but bulky (gauze, bandages, flex splints), or small and heavy (tapes, scissors, liquids or creams) . Makes packing a bag tricky as space and weight are both considered.

    My thought is that as I become more familiar with the items of First Aid/Trauma Kit, I will be able to better prioritize what I put in those kits.

    Am I alone in this? (maybe not First Aid) Does anyone else overcompensate?

    Any and ALL suggestions to help me break this cycle would be appreciated. I just recently pulled everything out of one of my bags and I found bug bite pain relief and burn cream... WHAT, that's not going to save my life! But you bet your ass I find it packed in all my other bags too... WHY!!!

    Rant Over!

    What's in your IFAK/Trauma kit?
     
  2. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Honestly take a course !!! It makes it all clear and you will find you can ditch some niceties for the actual things you may use.

    In reality you will probably need to take a couple of courses (there is no waste in this) to get beyond CPR and boo boos. I would start with basic/advanced FIRST AID (advanced sounds cool but it is still about making a person safe and comfortable to real help arrives) and then look at a dedicated Wilderness Aid course as it will go into more traumatic injury care and patient stabilisation. You need to think that in any SHTF event you will probably also be responsible for casualty recovery and a good course should cover off on this.

    Randall Adventure and Training in AL use to run the “ditch medicine” course, or similar name, that would be a good point after you have some initial first aid training.

    I’m lucky in that my work funds me to stay reasonably competent in the basics. Another point too is that first aid etc is always evolving (think CPR and the use of TQs over the last decade) so it never hurts to go back in a few years and redo the basics.
     
  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    This is a common issue with prepping trauma kit, folks seem to always have too much of everything, and most is really only useful beyond a persons skill set! As a retired Combat Search and Rescue Medic, I find something between the M-5 field trauma kit and a couple of IFAK's seems best. My kit that goes everywhere with me is about the size of a kids back pack, or those new type small "Tactical" Back Packs, and this gives me plenty of space for things I find I tend to use the most! I don't like sharing Lists, that tends to get folk thinking within a box, so I generally tell folks to pack mostly for "Stop the Bleed" and a good suture kit, along with lots of gauze rolls and compression pads and lots of butterfly bandages. A good basic trauma tool kit will also go a long ways, forceps, scalpels, and all that, and you should be good to go for most needs! I hate tourniquets, those tend to make problems worse, but they do have their place, so, i'm not going to tell you not to pack one along, just learn when and how to use them, and make damn sure your choice in using one is correct! Don't set your self up to try and do things you shouldn't, things that are well above your training/experience, the #1 goal is to cause no additional harm, get the person stable, treat for shock, and get them to the next level of care A.S.A.P!!

    Ran into a husband and wife who were loaded for war, they had everything a level 1 trauma center would want, and it was overwhelming, even to me! I went through each piece with them, ( with my Wife the trauma surgeon watching) and cleared over a third of their kit, and divided the remainder into 2 kits for them to spread out between them. I'm not joking, they had stuff for doing amputations, that's way above anything most folk should be worrying about!! ( In all my years of doing it down range, I have only ever done 5 Amps in the field, and those were only an absolute necessity to extract some one hopelessly pinned) and even then, had to be super careful to only take what was absolutely needed to get the person free. No matter how bad it might be, it's better to get a person to a higher level of care instead of cutting, remember, do no additional harm!
     
  4. TheJackBull

    TheJackBull Monkey+++

    @Andy the Aussie - Yes I do need to look at some skill courses. the more knowledge you have the better your discision making process will be.

    @Ura-Ki - Thats a good way to think about it. Stop the Bleed. Plain and simple, really with my level of experience and knowledge that is all I should be doing. The rest is dead weight that may cause more harm if I try and use it, and use it poorly...
    to add to that, if its not stopping the bleeding I probably shouldnt be packing it. Aside from maybe some blister care in the packs for long huals on foot, the rest can stay home. I always try and pack the whole medicine cabinent and to be honest I dont even use everything in there to begin with...
     
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  5. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    The problem I see is that in a real event your often not dealing with one Bobo but a whole lot of injuries.
    One band-aid is not going to cover it. On top of that, if it is bug out event there is follow-up care that is as important as the initial event. One asprin isn't going to cover it, and what is spare can be used for barter if necessary.
    Look very closely at the event in Venezuela people have to bring their own stuff to the hospital if they have any, and guard it like a hawk.
    Without a partner how will you deal with a gunshot wound in your backside? Or watch over you while you fight an infection?
    I have observed undisciplined hunters in the woods shooting at anything that moves, during a survival event and there is competition for what is out there, and with all the new shooters out there the chances of getting hit are high.
     
  6. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey


    THIS!
    I saw what went on in Bosnia, the women and youngsters were getting hurt all the time, just trying to survive. What the fighting didn't do, accidents and lack of knowledge did. We saw lots of broken bones that were not set properly, wounds that should have been stitched or properly closed that were not, festering wounds that were not cleaned or maintained clean, or lacked any medical intervention. we saw amputations that were done poorly, and some that probably shouldn't have been done in the first place, and gangrene, gangrene was everywhere, you could walk into a little hamlet and smell it, follow your nose to who had it, and know who was going to die from it! The two things that always struck me were; Lack of sterility, Lack of cleaning abilities! Folks had no idea about how to sterilize and keep clean, even the basics, boiling water was a challenge, it required firewood of which there wasn't much ( and horded), there was no electricity, or natural gas/LP fuel, so,.....
    Basic cleaning supplies were long gone, no bleach, no vinegar, no rubbing alcohol, nothing! Any medical supplies had been used up already, of were horded, or had been taken by whom ever came looking. In short, things were pretty bad, and personal hygiene had all but stopped about the same time the wells went bad! Then of course, there was all the child births, young girls who had been raped, or whored out, or those drugged and taken as prostitutes, lots of babies being born, many with Hepatitis, many with jaundice, and lots of other issues! Abortions were absolutely deadly to the mother, so that was a non issue, mostly! Drug use was a major issue in the urban areas, and all the medical issues that came with it, and treating any one was risky, so they usually were left alone to suffer what ever would ultimately kill them, mostly gangrene, or other terminal affliction that gets passed on when sharing needles! Improper handling of the dead bodies was a big issue, burning took forever and required lots of fuel, which they didn't have, usually a couple of old tires and a few chunks of fire wood and maybe some sod was the best they could do, burying often wasn't deep enough, or too close to a water supply, or the wild animals got to it and dug it up to feed, and the bugs, my god, the bugs were awful! I carried 2 cans of hard core Deet with me, and didn't share willingly! Lots of vermin everywhere, and those little bastards got to everything, so you had to clean everything before you tried to use it, and you would get what ever they spread, with the obvious results! Improper food prep, there wasn't much food, and what there was wasn't good, ether rotting, or spoiled, so they did what they could, and were often sick from it, what meat there was had turned, gawd, desperate folk will eat anything. You could smell the cooking everywhere you went, boiled Onion every where, often from crops that had been harvested a year or two prior, so these were the rotting leftovers that were still in the ground, same with the other things, carrots potatos, ect,....... and Rat Meat, if they could catch it and kill it, it got put in the stew pot, but they survived! THIS is what hell looks like, and this is what we prep for!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    This is what war looks like. Folks at home suffered during the overseas world wars, but were used to hardship. Today, it would be unimaginable that people would be able to survive in the cities. Folks in rural areas would fare better if they had land and a good well. Anyway... You never have enough.

    I have a pellet stove to heat my house which is useless when there is no electricity. The cooktop in the kitchen is electric, the hot water heater is electric, the water district has a single back-up generator and fuel storage that will only last a few days.

    I will be in a world of hurt, because there is a two week growing period here unless you have a greenhouse. No food producing animals, and no well. What I will have to survive will only be what I have preped.
     
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  8. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    The average American has no clue. When you try to lay it out, they freak out and call you names.

    The 4 horse men will extract a terrible toll should something major major happen in the US.
     
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  9. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    KATRINA!!!!
    It has happened here many times before, and will happen again, soon says me!
    With the lack of water, the heat, and a failing grid, the western states will fall first, and fall hard!
    Any major "event" will kick it off with gusto, and were in it for the long haul, recovery will be hard and take YEARS!
     
  10. TheJackBull

    TheJackBull Monkey+++

    So YMMV on this but, were do you place first aid in the priority list when packing/prepping. right now its #1 on my list but sometimes it feels like its #1 thru #5 and thats what I am concerened with. that I dont leave enough space for other Preps. Am I wrong in this? Should it be #1? or is the classic water, shelter, fire, food still the go to here... or is it more situational than that?
    I geuss what I'm trying to say is my EDC is basically a First aid kit with a Firearm and lighter stuffed in it with a granola bar and life straw.
    my BOB is bassicaly a large first aid kit with the above added and some extra water and fire items and tarp shelter.
    my INCH bag is a huge first aid kit with all the above and then some...
    see the pattern... should it be #1 prep or would an IFAK in each suffice and make room for other items...
    I'm sure I'll feel different as I get more educated on first aid and trauma care. I just feel like its too much, but injury is my biggest fear... you know what I mean?
    I have no problem stocking the food storage full of first aid, but I'm focused more on my "bags" if that makes sense... anyway im just ranting again...
     
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  11. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey


    What we do:
    A couple of expanded IFAK close at hand with the EDC ON person. Larger, more expansive kit in the cars/truck/plane/boat that has needed survival stuff plus more trauma care stuff, and then a grab and go set of kits in the house or where ever we are staying which have even more! The idea that just what you have ON person and a small kit close at hand makes the most sense, but is also limited, so make good well planned out choices. We also know that with very few exceptions, we are never more then 100 meters from one of our car/truck/plane/boat at any time, so those make carrying more gear pretty easy, unless you need to grab and boogy, then you have to have the means of breaking it down and only taking what you think you will want/need, and know where and how to come up with the rest on the fly! For us, the trauma/medical is #1 on the list, with out it, the rest is going to be a lot harder!

    Think of it this way, WHAT is it that's forcing you into a situation?
    Natural Disaster, Civil Unrest, War, What time of year, type of climate, an accident that has stranded you far from help? WHAT do all these things potentially have in common?
    Chances are you or some one in your group will have suffered some injury that may need immediate trauma care, and you are all amped up from having to try and survive what ever initially brought you to where you are now, you might be in shock, or simply overwhelmed, or tired from running your ass off, these things all have the potential of getting you hurt, and now you need to stop, and take the time to fix what's wrong, Can You?
    THIS is the biggest reason to have a basic Trauma kit close at hand and at least the basics in working with it.
    If nothing else, some one who knows what their doing may come along and help you, at least you have enough for them to be able to make it work! The trick is knowing what's essential, and what's nice to have, and what's superfluous, extra drag! There is no hard and fast answer for that!
     
  12. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    You have to take a holistic view of your needs, in the vast majority of cases you will die from a lack of food/water/shelter that can’t generally be solved by what you can carry in a med kit. If you are planning for yourself remember that your first aid is like a spare tyre on your car, you won’t leave without it but you may never need it. There are absolutely things (food/water/shelter) that you will need without question hopefully long before you need anything first aid related.

    You also have to think about the environment you are moving in and what the immediate needs and response capability from help is or is not. A weekend hike in a forest where you have phone coverage is very different (in my scenarios) to a week long trip into central Australia.

    From a prepping POV there is a difference between when you will carry in your pack vs what you may put away to manage long term illness or injury. I never say that having gear you are not entirely comfortable using is bad (the person that arrives to help you may well know how to) but again it’s about balance.

    Look at your pack and ask yourself “if I walk into the bush today for a week, what are my priorities day by day”. You can’t use an IFAK if you have perished from exposure or dehydration.

    When I load my pack my medical kit is well down the list of immediate needs it’s ranking and content will also change depending on where I am off to. There is no one size fits all. But I do think you are overly fixated on one thing here Mate.

    Sorry I was typing at UK above was posting :D
     
  13. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    The real problem with the bug out scenario is where are you bugging out to? The first thing I usually hear from people is "the woods". You already know that strategy is not going to end well.

    My solution to the BOB is to bug in. If your AO isn't conducive to bugging in the first option is to relocate to somewhere that is. That's a bigger, more complicated thing than it sounds because you WILL need community to survive longer than a bag or two of beans.

    If you can't relocate due to work/business then option 2 is a second property that you can bug out to. This property should have the majority of your preps on site and secured. Keep a handy 4x4 vehicle ready (like a frame on Jeep Cherokee) to go. You are looking for a SUV that is nimble, tight turning radius, and narrow but still has room for people and gear. All you should need except for perishables and a few other essentials should always be packed. The BOV should have a bicycle for each family member just in case.

    Instead of a BOB consider a GHB. This will get you home from work or from BOV to BOL if you need to bail from the BOV. Basically, mission specific to get from point A to B with minimal gear for speed. You can always take extra gear from the BOV as circumstances dictate, for example, extra first aid equipment if there are injuries. A GHB is essentially what you would take backpacking for the anticipated duration of the journey.
     
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  14. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Reading through this I kept chuckling about the giant roll of mole skin that I acquired with some of my GI medical kits. It's great stuff, but I'm not a Navy Corpsman providing support to a Company of Marines. A good cane or walking stick is a far greater necessity to me nowadays than some mole skin for blister prevention. It is great stuff, but I got three words of advice early in my military career that I never forgot. "Grease your feet." Feels funny, but I never had a blister.

    Sadly, from experience, I can tell you that one of the bigger pieces of gear in your medical kit that you shouldn't discard, and that you will treasure is the NSN 6530-00-783-7510 Nylon Non-Rigid Litter. You're still dealing with dead weight, but lots of handles and straps in a durable material make a bad day less terrible.

    DSC_6130.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Just like anything else, it's mostly situational.
    The first step is to receive training as needed, which will determine your level of kit. The second step is to plan based on your environment. The last step is to organize and evaluate your setup and finally test it.
    Everything I've mentioned is simple enough, but the second step is often overlooked. For example, if you live in a hot weather zone, you'd plan your kit around heat stress and water procurement. "First Aid" is really more than band aids and bandages. The first step is equally critical since your level of expertise will dictate the items you require. Bugging out is not going to be the same as staying put, so that's a no-brainer. What really gets me is how some folks believe they can pack kit for an arterial bleed but have no skill at navigating. Sure, you can patch a wound, but when time matters, it doesn't mean anything if you can't actually receive help. And the real stinking end of the stick is how one plans to survive post SHTF when there is no help.

    Regardless of skill level, a good kit for emergencies should include clean gauze, tape, scissors, a means to remove splinters (to prevent infections), a method to procure clean water, bandages, and some form of over-the-counter pain meds. Other than this, I'd say training is needed, but land navigation is a must for any bug out. Now, strictly speaking about perfect world scenarios where there is no bug out and you're out hiking, then an emergency plan is critical. This includes telling somebody where you are going, when you'll be back, and possibly even using an emergency beacon. Just doing the last bit will negate all the headache pertaining to survival, but that's assuming there's no grid down situation and SHTF happening.
     
  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    One of the biggest problems most folks will have in bugging is the whole Where To? They didn't ever plan, have never tried to get there on foot or a slow drive in 4X4, so they have no concept of how long it's going to take, how much fuel it's going to take, if they can even do it on one tank, and then, what its going to be like once they get there! The whole "Ima go to the woods" is suicide, they just don't know it yet! worse yet, they have no idea who much food they will be able to take, or if there is any left to take when they go, and how much they can carry if they do make it out of urban areas! So many variables and with no plan, their dead in a few days!

    I have many areas I can bug if needed, some within a days hike, some a couple days worth, some I gotta drive, and a few would be awesome, but need to fly to get there! Being able to transport large loads in a short time is 100% dependent on the roads and the hoards at the moment I decide to bug! I have actually been to these places, evaluated them, actually spent time there, and decided they would work, even if for just a few days!
     
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  17. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Many also overlook testing their plan to get there. Do they have multiple routes? Do they try route "A" with a random "no pass" along the way they have to navigate around maybe by ditching the BOV or backtracking to try rounte "B". Have they humped that pack enough to have everything dialed in? Guaranteed it won't be nearly as easy as it looks on paper in a real event. Contingencies for natural disasters vs political unrest/gangs, etc..
     
  18. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Had a bug out place, Laura took it out last year, Going to have to sit tight here But....
    Looking at boats presently and quite possibly another camp, I know one thing, Any tree that can go thru the roof is coming down !
     
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  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Laura a woman spurned? ;)
     
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  20. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Hurricane Laura ol chap, Drove the front door thru the floor and into the ground, Split the rest of my lil ca'bon in half.
    Totaled out.

    20200912_121557.
     
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