To LBE or not to LBE?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Sherman, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. Sherman

    Sherman Dog Eat Dog

    I've always left the tacticool stuff for the real warriors and mall ninjas but am considering putting together some kind of loadout kit. I have my Milt Sparks rig, ankle holster etc. for regular discreet carry and had planned to throw my gear in a duffle on bug out day but what if I need more gear on me and more accessible? I was thinking of something like a Blackhawk H harness system w/ Serpa CQC drop leg. Maybe even some multicam BDU's.
    Is it unreasonable to think I might need something like this? or am I getting carried away?

    Recommendations, comments...
  2. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Depends on what the plan is on bugout day.
    Where will you go?
    How will you get there?
    Car or no car?
    How much have you cached there?
    What's plan B?

    Not being a wiseacre just asking.

    It's twelve o'clock, American, another day closer to victory...
  3. Nomad 2nd

    Nomad 2nd Monkey+++

    I go with ether a Chest Rig or Shoulder Bag for low/semi low profile, and an Eagle Vest (Soft armor and plates) for 'serious use'.

    I've run all of them in training, used a Maxpidition shoulder bag in Advanced Fighting rifle at Tactical Response...

    It's now my car bag.

    Used LBE's when I first got in the Corps... went stayed in Past Interceptors...

    There's LOTS better gear than LBE's.

    Serpas suck BTW, one little rock into the locking mechanism and you won't be able to get the gun out...
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I have used pretty much everything, and it all comes down to what YOU decide is best for your body type/loadout and environment.

    The crossdraw vests offer some things that drop legs do not. Drop legs offer you the option to distribute weight across your body by freeing up space on your chest or waist. LBE systems rate from decent to average to very poor depending on your wallet size. One good way to compromise is to try a LBV (load bearing vest), typified by current day military operations. There really is almost no end to what you can do; many people like to "Frankenstein" their loadouts in an arrangement which best suits their environment and gear solution.

    One item I am fond of is the Leg-Pack system (nearly impossible to find today) made by Summit.

    And I do not agree with Nomad -the Serpa holster is not prone to getting a little rock lodged in the release mechanism, and if we spent our time straying from utilizing equipment strictly based on what it "might do", we wouldn't be using a whole lot. Your round is just as likely to explode -it "might" not work. Oh I guess we shouldn't use firearms at all then. (end sarcasm) Just do what you want and use what fits you and serves your purpose. Stay away from cheap imitations. Generally, a few extra dollars pays off for that quality kit.
  5. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I'm not sure what an LBE even is...?
    Lots of changes since I was exposed to certain items...
    I do have a vest that has about 25 lbs of items stored in it, and a standard military issue pistol belt that carries additional items...I have 2 other bags, 1 smaller bag for medical only, and 1 gym style bag for basics and advanced needs. All told the entire "system" weighs in at a whopping 85 lbs!
    Too much to carry, if you have a bad back, need to travel fast, or do any climbing....
    It needs to be reduced by 60-65 lbs at least!
    If I am traveling by car, no problem, if by motocycle, again not too bad... on a bicycle it could be tougher to manage. On foot, no way I'd even try it.
    The hard part is deciding just exactly ( no frills) what equipment I may NEED, and what I know I will need!
  6. Nomad 2nd

    Nomad 2nd Monkey+++

    You need to do a search for an Article Writen By Paul Gomez about thsi very thing...

    I've SEEN IT in SEVERAL classes.

    It happens.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Research? I have real life experience. It doesn't happen to me. I do not read articles to acquire experience when it comes to combat. I live it.
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I have personally seen this as well. Absence of first hand experience does not make it impossible. Try plying the kydex button out of a Serpa once and you won't ever wear one again. Murphy says it won't happen until you need to draw it.

    I use a Safariland holster. So does all my team except a few.

    As for a rig for mags and such..... I use a Tactical Tailor MAV. I have used both the 2 piece and 1 piece. I think the 1 piece wears a bit better. The 2 piece is easier. I also use an Eagle/SKD rig. It's the really simple one that holds mags and a handgun if you so choose.
    Eagle Chest Rig, Universal/SKD Version :: At :: Eagle Industries, Multicam Tactical Gear, Tactical Vests, Molle Pouches, Chest Rigs...

    Obviously, I prefer chest rigs. I will say this.... keep it to water and ammo. A lot of people put so many GP pouches and other BS on there that the load gets heavy fast. The rig should only be for a fighting load. What do you really need to survive? Keep all the E&E sh*t in a pack. Your lower back and shoulders will thank me.

    Disclaimer... I do wear this sh*t for a living.

    ETA: There is a lot of people that appropriate body armor and gear up like an operator. These are generally the types that don't do anything for prep other than buy ammo. Anyone that wears that sh*t a lot knows that it breaks you down over time. Right now with my battle ammo, M203 grenades, knife, pistol mags, MBITR, and a day's water, just my kit weighs in at about 50-60 lbs. That is before I add food, additional clothing, etc. We can fight like this because we do it for a short amount of time. Any long term SHTF and you will quickly start breaking down. Lower back, siatic (spelling?) nerve and some other places really take a beating. I am fit and do thousands of crunches a week along with other assorted core exercises and it is tough on me after a couple long days. Not to mention you look like a huge target to pretty much everyone. The sight of a BA clad tacticool ninja will stimulate the "shoot first, ask questions later" from about anyone. I am for the LBE/chest rig. Just know it's place. Probably not everyday.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Fine, but don't make claims that the Serpa is garbage [Nomad], and don't cite opinion like it is FACT. I don't care what you personally prefer -just don't go around spreading rumors like it's biblical and that others have to obey it. If some twat wants to roll around on the ground and let their equipment get damaged, that's their problem.

    Every day carry (EDC) with a Serpa isn't going to magically absorb a tiny pebble from the ground and stop functioning. If I am actively training and rolling around on the ground like a fire victim, the last thing I am going to do is point at the air and curse the gods for making dirt and small stones -and the worst thing I can do is expect a very high quality piece of equipment to last forever under such trials. Everything breaks sooner or later. Common sense, fellas. You are both reduced to blaming the natural elements for your failure. Way to go. If I were ever to include others in my tactical scenarios, the very last ones I would choose are people like yourselves -always blaming something or someone else for your own inadequate nature. That's harsh, I know -truth hurts. Suck it up, move on.

    Your equipment will serve you well if you know how to use it. Your equipment is only as effective as the person using it.

    Our forefathers fought a determined foreign enemy, most times at daunting odds which were against them; they made due with the bare essentials, they forged onward -always onward. Do you think that they blamed something as silly as a pebble for their misfortunes? Come on, get real. Grow up and grow a pair while you are at it.

    These claims of Serpa holsters failing are nothing more than rumors and speculation based on extremely RARE instance under specific conditions, provided that the wrong person is at the wrong place at the right time. That is all. Case closed. Moving on.
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I have a few different setups for my perceived mode. Not an operator and never have had any real experience but I realize that someday I might have to play one to stay alive... I also realize that I can't carry my stuff in my hands and expect to be able to do other tasks at the same time. A wheelbarrow just isn't my style either.

    I have a chest rig from Tactical Tailor (x harness) that can hold a lot of stuff should I need it to. I like the chest harness idea because it just feels better to me. My favorite - or at least most comfortable- is a vest. I know that Blackhawk isn't really considered real gear anymore but the tac vests I have with a cross draw holster feel very nice on. I also have a few other pads, panels, and thigh rigs that use PALS. My ruck is a Kifaru Navigator with some extra pockets inside and out and the entire thing is sheathed in PALS... I have a couple of cases of MALICE clips for various points of attachment and a butt load of zipties.

    I really like the stuff that Tactical Tailor and Kifaru put out but the best set-up for you is the best set-up for you, regardless of what the guy next to you is doing.

    OT, but do we need a warrior forum for our veterans to split hairs in? :lol:
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    [stirpot] forum, that would be.
  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I am an a55h0le sometimes. Not apologizing. Just stating fact.
  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    lol, I think sniper-66 once responded to that very statement by you in our mod forum with "yeah, but he's our a55hole". That goes way back. Interesting being a part of a community that comes and goes over a 5-6 year period.
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Indeed, my good man. Indeed. [beer]

    "I would still rather be hated than feared. The government doesn't kill people it hates." -Brokor, 2010
  15. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Uhhhh....... the Serpa in question is a leg drop Serpa.... not an EDC Serpa. So, unless you plan on standing upright the whole time during a scenario where a leg drop is warranted.... I think that it is more than reasonable that a pebble can (and has.... again, I am an eyewitness) lodge in the Serpa.

    I know you have done at least one SRM range with a stress shoot Brokor. Did you not end up with that fine range gravel in every single crevice? It's not about "if" a leg drop holster will be exposed to that. It's about "when". Knowing that it will be commonly exposed to gravel, do you really want that risk?

    And the case doesn't close becasue you say it does. Brokor is not the end all be all [beat][winkthumb]

    (Thanks for the patriotic speach about our forefathers too. It really added to your arguement. I think you meant it as a rhetorical question but...yes. They frequently complained about the lack of basic equipment.)

    My advice..... stay away from anything Blackhawk. Serpas included. What's sad is that the PX sells Serpas now :rolleyes:
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    That was not made clear. I agree that a drop leg Serpa when used for ranges and military training is less than adequate. I can also see the stones being a problem. But, gravel ranges are not common enough across the entire world, so this argument only goes so far.
    I concede that for training, the drop leg Serpa is not a choice I would make.
    Yes. Yes it does. [loco] Duh!

    That's what I thought! [stirpot]
    FOR TRAINING IN GRAVEL. Agreed. And no, that doesn't surprise me one bit. [ROFL] The PX has its share of poo, that's for sure. 11 up and 3 down.
  17. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I will add..... you are aware that gravel exists in other areas of the world besides ranges... right? [peep] [stirpot]

    I think we do need a "Old Warrior Forum" so I can vent. Why is it that the Air Force guy that tells me sharing 2 port-o-johns for 30 people is ok is crapping in a ceramic god daily? If we had another forum.... I wouldn't have to vent that here. :D

    ETA: It does beat burning sh*t
  18. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Ok, BUT someone PULEEZE tell me what the HECK "LBE" stands for?
    "load bearing......."?
    I get the rest....
    Forgive me, for I am old...!
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    So far as an "Old Warrior" forum goes, it would be of some interest to the young pups to get the perspective of guys that are pre-Kevlar helmet age, before there were portapotties in theatre, before (or around the time) M-16s took over from M1s, and when resupply was mule-man portable only. Battle gear was issued, not selected from an array in the PX. There ain't too many of those left, methinks, and few enough of them on this forum. (I'm not quite M1 old.) 'Course none of that mattered to those of us that went to sea in sewer pipes.

    Griping in the military is universal; if it ain't the gear, it's the food. If not food, then headache pills, or the top or COB that can't seem to let a guy rest instead of harping on cleaning something. The only time griping isn't top on the list of things to do is when actually in action and training takes over; then it is all business. Thanks for serving, guys, and letting us bitch about whatever is on the MSM rumor/misdirection of the day.

    Back on topic, then: I wouldn't know a serpa from a sherpa, nor an LBE from a European Shoulder Bag. But it doesn't matter, I'm going no where with any kind of load. Too old and lazy to run and die tired; I'm living in my Alamo. Molon Labe.
  20. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I hear ya!
    I'm still trying ot get used to BDU's instead of fatigues, and BTW what ever happened to the Khaki's/1505's?
    The first time I heard the term "alice pack" I had to be concerened about just what the heck was going on in the services!
    So many changes....(so danged many years!)
    Yup, so you newer guys need to help some of us older types (me!) in on the newest terminolgy!
    My generation is the: M-14, M-16, and 1911 .45 era!
    Today, I feel as if I was back in the civil war era, and came thru time to suddenly be faced with all the new words!
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