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Fear and Sorrow, My thoughts on the present time in usa

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Benjamin A. Wood, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Very well thought out and written. Much to think about. However? you might want to edit the last paragraph. I'm pretty sure you meant to say Illegally....lol
    oldman11 likes this.
  2. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    @Grandpa Patch follow the money. China passed that off to Zimbabwe most of it
  3. I have no problem listening to other opinions then my own, But I want facts. I have never had any problems giving due consideration to any persons beliefs or opinions. Many times I have learned new things, And even learned that sometimes I was wrong or mistaken. I have no problem excepting that, and adjusting my thoughts if required. But THAT post was nothing but wild ranting that was meant to flame and anger. I love civil respectful discussion on almost any subject. I learn much by having those discussions. And I treasure them. But Uncivil Un-respectful discussions filled with hateful insults and veiled threats? It does not matter if he had facts to back up his ranting. He chose the tone and how to write that post. And I believe, he knew or should have known how it would go over. That post belongs on the trash heap of time. Along with all the other tired rantings of such people as Adolf Hitler and Stalin
  4. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    @Benjamin A. Wood just look at Broker's other posts he does have his ducks in a row and since we all know him we have seen all his evidence. Suggestion, you might want to check out his other posts before you rant at his ... just a suggestion. Written posts are easy to take offense at when someone else has a different opinion.

    I get crossways with other members on here all the time when they post something i consider 'dumb' or 'not well thought out' and I let them know about it.:ROFLMAO::love: @Broker and I disagree upon occasion but the thing I absolutely respect about him is even his speculations have supporting data. And he has changed my viewpoint several times because he does his homework. Not many people do that.

    Opinions are like bungholes everyone has them and the beauty of being human is that we dont all have to have the same viewpoint.. (wouldn't it be a boring world if we all thought the same thoughts)
  5. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    This reminded me very much of this article and many other of a similar flavor that have been pumped out over the last decade.
    Empty half the Earth of its humans. It's the only way to save the planet | Kim Stanley Robinson

    Dude comparing Brokor to Hitler or Stalin is just MESSED UP.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2019
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  6. I thank you for your thoughts, and pointing out that he may have the facts and supporting data to back up his claims. That IS a very important and relevant fact. However, I would ask you to please reread my post to him and to BTPost about the post he sent. I did not attack him personally. I did not say he was full of crap in anyway. I did however say that he gave no supporting facts to back up all the claims he made. And I found the post to be full of insults to many, myself included. The very last line of his post under the picture? can be construed as a veiled theat. Let us all remember, we all decide and post on this site. We decide how and in what tone we will use for our discussions. WE as individuals, decide if we will throw insults and threats, and Attack each other. Guess what? We are ALL responsible for our own actions, words and insults we use to others. He chose his own words, he chose the format of his post. He chose the tone it would take. Yes, I am new to this forum. So please tell me ,when I don't know the man, and have not had the chance to read other post he may had Written? just how should I take that post. I did not attack the man, I did not attack his intelligence or even knowledge. I did however spell out my opinions on his post and the way HE chose to do it. The form he took does not instill debate, discussion, or learning. only hate and animosity. It was, at least to me, to be written to inflame and be insulting. I did expect more from a moderator, And I truly do not believe that expectation to be un reasonable. Though I am also man enough to admit, The last line I wrote telling him to get some help? May have been a little jab on my part, and uncalled for as well,....

    Small point of order..... I DID NOT compare him to Hitler and Stalin. I compared that ONE post to the rantings of Hitler and Stalin.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2019
  7. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Twist it how you want, best I can tell yer one of those people that know all and will put everyone in their place. You earned yer place on my "Go Screw yerself list". Have a good day :)
    Ganado likes this.
  8. Hmm, I don't know you or the life you have lived. I can not and will not judge you as a person, I only judge actual actions. Just as my actions are judged. I do not and have never said I know all. In fact, I know, That I know very little. Its why I love discussion and debate. I learn from it. You have every right to your opinion, And freedom of association. So I shall miss our informative talks. Please have a good day and may God bless.
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    @Benjamin A. Wood - You are new here and need to know that is Brokor's style, right up front and in your face with what's really going on. In your face is not meant to say in your face directly but with facts out front. Like others have said in this thread he has researched what was written and has previously posted those statements along with may other including the documentation to back it up. Don't take what was written personal and check out some old threads.
    Brokor likes this.
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    @Brokor - Thank you for posting the links. Know most of this but a refresher course is always helpful and needed sometimes to remember how screwed us slaves are.

  12. Thank you for these links, Broker. I will find, read, and consider the information. It is my hope that this will lead to much discussion and debate for the sake of knowledge and understanding. I too, tend to be direct and am in no way PC. But I do try very hard to be honest and fair. Since my days in the militia in the 90's, I have tried hard to discuss The problems I see happening. and to wake up the sheeple as it were. Though I have not been long on this site, I have been on many others. I have had many discussions and much was learned. But I have also had far too many flamers come and give me crap, just to start fights and make threats to shut me up. Admittedly, I have a short fuse and outright hatred for flamers, socialist snowflakes and anything that resembles them. But because of my faith, I try very hard not to judge the individual, and only judge actions and statements. Most of the time I succeed, But I am human. It is my hope and prayers that this will be a new start for good conversation and maybe in time , good friendships..... Again thank you for info. Time to do some reading.
    Grandpa Patch, Mountainman and Brokor like this.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    @Benjamin A. Wood You are quite welcome for the information, and I hope it can inspire you to create and possibly inspire others. And there's no explanation needed, you are already a valued member as far as I'm concerned. One point of contention I'd like to make, not for you so much as for the rest of the folks who come here, is that I am but one member, nobody special or unique. I may have been here from near the start of the forum, but I am not its representative. The roles of moderator and even admin are just assignments to help keep the forum rolling along, but it is the membership base as a whole that exemplifies the Survival Monkey. This is your home, should you choose to make it so. I am just one of its stewards.

    I would like to add that much of what you said was great. You definitely have the right spirit, and I believe this information can benefit you in your search for answers.
    Ganado, Grandpa Patch and Mountainman like this.

  14. Thank you
    Brokor likes this.
  15. Tempstar

    Tempstar Praeclarum Site Supporter+

    Dig deep. Lincoln freed the slaves so they would no longer be property and could be sent back. In fact, a few ships of freed slaves were sent to Haiti. It is speculated in many circles that this was the real reason behind his assassination.
    Mountainman and Gator 45/70 like this.
  16. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Something that always bothers me is people saying The War Of Northern Aggression was to free the slaves. I'm sure we all heard that BS in school history classes. The resources in the south leaving the union was of much greater concern to the north and the slaves were an afterthought compared to that.
    Brokor likes this.
  18. To both Tempstar and Mountainman , This post is just to start a conversation. Have both of you , ever considered that you both may be right? To a point? And that this difference of opinion is based and colored more on each of your own experiences and thoughts on the subject matter? Please understand. When I look back on any historical time period or situation . I try to look at it like an archeologist, And I try hard to keep an open mind. But I am who and what I am. I am the sum total of my experiences, My faith, My education, and even my hope and dreams. My good times and my bad times. To a certain extant they color my perception, no matter how hard I try to not let them. I have read Lincolns diaries, And he wrote a little about his mixed feelings on slavery ,and the questions his faith brought to the subject. Admittedly, very little. But when I read them, I tried to put myself in HIS shoes as it were. To try and understand the complexities that existed back then. But there is a few problems doing that. Since I did not live back then, I can not fully understand all complexities of the daily life, culture, faith or lack of it by individuals of the time. Or even how the economics and politics of the time shaped and directed the thoughts and opinions of the various groups. So in my search for understanding. I sometimes have no choice but to make subjective opinions of understanding, Based on my own experiences in life. It would be very nice to actually sit down and ASK Lincoln where he stood and what his thoughts and opinions on a hundred subjects are. But that is not possible. And unfortunately, We have but a very small fraction of the writings of the time. and even if we had all of them? they could not tell the whole story. Because not every ones thoughts and feeling on the subject matter was written down for us to read and understand their points of view.

    Tempstar you posted to me,

    "Dig deep. Lincoln freed the slaves so they would no longer be property and could be sent back. In fact, a few ships of freed slaves were sent to Haiti. It is speculated in many circles that this was the real reason behind his assassination. "

    Here's the rub, I cant argue with anything you said here. If you asked an abolitionist of strong faith back then about slavery, They would likely say "Blacks are just as human as us, and deserve to be free as are all god's children!" I believe I am paraphrasing here somewhat of what I have read from the times. My memory is not what it used to be.
    But if you asked a southern plantation owner who owned slaves? You would likely get something along the lines.
    "blacks are not human, they are animals to be owned and use!"
    2 totally different opposing answers and viewpoints on the same subject, from 2 different people, during the same historical timeline.....

    As far as President Lincoln is concerned? I honestly can not say because, I have not seen anywhere so far that he actually said point blank what his opinion is. Personally? I feel his faith was far stronger then many give credit to him for. And I feel his decisions may have been based more on his faith, then his life experiences. But I also realize that my viewpoint could, and may, be colored by my own strong faith. Ask 100 people their opinion on any subject today and you are likely to get at least a dozen different answers. Ask 100 soldiers of 10 or more years of service, "why do you go overseas and fight in other countries?" And Again, You will get at least a dozen different answers. And all answers are true... It is after all, Their statements, opinions , and reasons. As it is today, So was it back then.

    In the statement.. "Lincoln freed the slaves so they would no longer be property and could be sent back."

    Viewed from the abolitionist point of view? They did not believe blacks should be slaves and property. And wanted to free their brothers and sisters. And may have felt that their brothers and sisters would have a happier and freer lives back home. Then they would here, with so many bigoted raciest.

    Viewed from the southern Plantation owners point of view? the government took away their property, their fortunes, and lessened their political power. Out of, and for the sake of, greed, power, and control!

    Lincolns point of view? I honestly don't know. I personally Want and DO believe it is more along the lines of the abolitionist.
    But THAT alas, Is MY point of view...….

    I realize this post is getting a bit long and maybe a little convoluted, So I will cut to the chase and say Mountainman? I believe I can make the same argument with your post, That I did with Tempstar's

    "Something that always bothers me is people saying The War Of Northern Aggression was to free the slaves. I'm sure we all heard that BS in school history classes. The resources in the south leaving the union was of much greater concern to the north and the slaves were an afterthought compared to that."

    My apologies for the length and convoluting nature of my post. My wife refers to it as me "Getting on my schoolhouse soapbox" I refer to it as, "being lost in thought" Both opinions are likely true......
    Brokor likes this.
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I wish I still had my notes, long lost in storage. Try to also keep in mind that Lincoln had to deal with the Europeans, in particular the private banking interests, who would gladly support the South if it meant taking down any hope of unity with the Union in the lead. Lincoln's Greenback was, and still remains the only debt free currency we've ever used, and fully authorized by Congress and not in the hands of private banks. The armies Lincoln was faced with, the threats from the Europeans only added to the quagmire. One might stipulate that the Emancipation of slaves sped things along a bit, as it was a tactically sound maneuver as well as the right thing to do.

    Lincoln knew we wouldn't last unless we were one nation. He knew this because the very wealthy European interests salivated at the chance to pick us apart and keep the dividing line. Kept divided for too long, there was no chance in hell for a unified nation unless it was under the flag of the British Crown. This simply wouldn't do.
    Ganado and Benjamin A. Wood like this.
  20. I find all your points to be very persuasive. And a very real possible reason for Lincolns choices of action. Thank you.
    On a more personal matter, I have started going through the links you supplied. You were right. Its going to take me months to go through and digest. I'm still on the first 2, about the government being a corporation. I know absolutely nothing about Corporation Law. So it forced me to spend a hour this morning digging out my old Black's Law Dictionary. Webster's just wont do. For THAT? I don't know if I should thank you? or cuss you? But the next few months do seem like they will be an interesting life...….( WAIT! Was that not a Chinese curse?) [doh]
    Mountainman likes this.
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  17. GrayGhost


    Do we have freedom of speech today?
    Thread by: GrayGhost, Jan 27, 2016, 43 replies, in forum: Freedom and Liberty
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